With all the hype around the nostalgia it seems to be slipping by people that this 2CV also has a class leading weight at under a tonne.
Lighter weight means better range for a smaller battery, more efficient tyres and lower road wear. It's one of the reasons why the target price is going to be so low.
It's a really cheap car but I think to do that they still have to have some good engineering in it.
show comments
alentred
There are more details on the official website [1] and in the official video [2]
I already love it. The infotainment is proudly named Radioën. They made the champignon pedals!, although I am not sure this will be kept in the production model due to regulation. The seats will definitely need headrests in the 21st :)
And there is a van model. I doubt that one will be a commercial success, though.
I’m a big fan of cars that look happy. There’s something wrong with the trend of all cars looking big and aggressive. What’s wrong with us that we want that?
>As they face mounting competition from Chinese manufacturers, Citroen and other European brands are exploiting their heritage as a means of selling modern motors
Heritage and vintage looks of the EU car industry, will only take you so far. Working class people still choose best bang/range for the buck car since their car is a tool, not a fashion statement bag.
Those who treat their car as a fashion accessory are few and the fad of such a retro model wears off quickly when too many people end up with them making them uncool again, like the VW did with the new beetle.
show comments
yason
So, how's the suspension travel on this one? One of the key qualities of the original designed-barebones 2CV would be the long suspension travel and linked arms front and back.
hn_submit
I've always been amazed why the 2CV is seen as a styling icon. It's a bare-bones car from the 1930's which didn't get produced until the late 40's due to the war. By the time production ramped up it was hopelessly outdated.
The only thing positive that can be said about the modern iteration is its $15K price. But for that money you're not getting a real car but a city roundabout with very limited range and speed. The Chinese BYD Seagull is a real car for $10,000 which is quite large to boot.
It's positive that European carmakers are finally catering to the wallets of their customers. No one is clamoring for an electric $50K VW Rabbit (VW Golf).
show comments
lucfranken
The original is great fun to drive in. It also had a really simple rooftop which could be opened in some models. It drove on highways but that was really exciting.
I'm really digging Citroen's design recently. Along with Renault and Hyundai, they feel like cars from the future instead of the bloated aggressive and angular design we've come to expect
Grimeton
Citroen doing the Citroen thing: Building cars that are way ahead of their time and that nobody buys in the end.
Let's hope this time it's different.
virtualritz
Did you ever sit in an original MINI? Your ass is so low that you think any bump will bring a bloody visit to the proctologist with it. Literally and figuraitvely.
Or an original Fiat 500? Or a Citroen 2CV?
The charm of them was not least that these cars were small. Very small by today's standards.
A MINI is about (LxW) 3m x 1.4m. A contemporary "MINI" is almost 3.8m x 2m.
Or worse, the MINI Countryman the MINI that wants to be a SUV and a MINI and fails on both accounts.
I fear the new 2CV will just be another weird supersized version of a classic.
All these cars feels like when Hollywood does the n-th relaunch of Spiderman or Batman or whatever because ... capitalism.
Play it safe, don't risk innovating with a new car that could be original and cute and loved by a new generation for what it is, not what it tries to replicate. Because the success of that depends on many factors, only one of which is originality. Whereas the classic has already prooven itself in all of them.
That said, I think the new Fiat 500 is actually not that bad. It's still a car that feels like a proper relaunch of the original ... in some way.
halflife
Interestingly, the name 2cv means 2 Cheval Fiscal, or 2 fiscal horses. Which was a tax measurement for cars based on a formula of the shape and performance of the engine.
The car itself had 9 horsepower.
nmstoker
Ah, the joys of being a passenger with six others in a 2CV! Cornering was fun as he wheels ground into the wheel arch like something from a gladiator film!
whatever1
Damn I saw Stelantis and 2CV, and I was like isn’t 2CV Citroen?
I missed the part that Stelantis bought everything that is not VW.
show comments
ryan_glass
If it is truly retro - ie ships without a sim card, tracking and crap tech then they would get my money. I don't hold out much hope though.
And only ten years after it was obvious to do. Looking at you fiat as well
orliesaurus
Missed opportunity to call it Citroën Deux but stylized dEVx - being an EV (read it as the french word `deux` aka 2)
sdcfgy
I rather like this. Apart from the interior. Hopefully a production design will have some of the idealisms from the designer removed and replaced with more practical choices. It is however a near ideal cheaper end car for most European countries.
show comments
theplumber
I think the issue with all these cars is that they are not cheap enough. You get “half” of car while the Chinese provide you a “proper” car for the same price.
GuB-42
Not a big fan of the trend of making all these small electric cars while at the same time dropping the entire A-segment, which, for Citroen, would be the C1.
The problem is that these electric cars have terrible range, because of the small battery, making them almost exclusively city cars. A-segment gas cars are also marketed as city cars, but they can also do long trips just fine. Not the most comfortable, and you are not taking your entire house with you, but you will get there, at highway speeds, just like with any other car. And with good fuel economy too. Perfect for those who want an affordable car, don't drive much, but may take the occasional road trip. By comparison, that 2CV is mostly designed as a second car (in addition to being a fashion statement), when you already have a big car for long trips (or get rental/public transport instead).
And for manufacturers, I think "affordable" is the problem here, A-segment cars are low margin, but not cheaper to design than more upscale models, especially now with all the safety and environmental regulations, so the market is not really worth it.
show comments
agumonkey
I find the 2020s interpretations of vintage cars very much off personally. It's too simplistic in shape, toy like. But well that's a general trend.
Now cat manufacturers are really trying to bring good price to capabilities ratio. Kudos to that.
underlipton
Aw, it's smiling! :3
(Before anyone says anything, the face that the consumer-friendly vehicle has an endearing "face" is salient.)
gpas
It seems they are listening to potential buyers' wishes. Since the first evs appeared in the market, everyone wanted technologically upgraded classic models.
aucisson_masque
Everyone love it, I just want to remind people it’s a concept car !!!
Design of the actual car that will go on production is not even done.
We have seen hundreds of nice concept car that lead to nothing or disaster.
Also the 2cv was great because it was cheap, reliable and easy to repair. Good luck with these electric car, it certainly won’t be ‘farmer favorite’.
show comments
vlovich123
Are the Chinese cars somehow really doing manufacturing more efficiently or is it a flooding of the market to capture the market and drive out encumbants (whether government subsidized or otherwise)?
I just don’t understand how the Chinese are making cars at half the price or more since afaik they also manufacture them in China and ship rather than build locally.
show comments
MisterMunchkin
Having a roll-up fabric roof doesn't seem very practical. I don't really want a car that's going to fill with water. All the potential gaps, having to roll up a soggy, bird-shit-covered roof. It just doesn't seem like a great idea.
NietTim
Renault with the revival of the V / 5 and now this, French car brands have been producing THE best designs of all electric cars, in my opinion
sl-1
I hope they succeed, but probably will fail with too complex design. Original 2cv is wonderfully simple. If they can keep that simplicity, they will win.
show comments
trgn
I really hope this succeeds and carries over here. The future of city traffic is quiet, odourless, small electric cars puttering around (hoe nyc would feel so much more welcoming!). Hope to see in my lifetime still
arnejenssen
No headrests? It looks scary.
show comments
ktosobcy
IMHO the biggest news is new M1E category. I do hope that with that push EU will somewhat mitigate the absolute clusterf*k caused by CAFE regulation in the US :/
thomasfl
There is nothing wrong with nostalgia. Some property developers makes money from nostalgic architecture. Fashion clothing is often a mix of new and nostalgia.
show comments
1970-01-01
Retro styling doesn't age well and it just makes the overall vehicle harder to repair. Just take parts from your existing inventory and build me a good looking tiny car. EVs should be ground up designs, not some artistic regurgitation of some 40 year old idea with bespoke parts and inflated costs.
mrlonglong
Lane assist on post 2016 Audi cars. Ugh. I'm the one in control. Not some stupid SBC box.
gvfsa
Why do they have to make it look like the car Barbie & Ken ride in?
codeulike
I like the lego wheels
show comments
raduz
Looks like a similar move to the one Renault took with Renault 5 model. Might not be a bad move, I see a lot of Renault 5 cars on the road.
lbriner
When I was about 12, my slightly younger friend told me his family were getting rid of the Ford Granada with its high fuel consumption and getting "a convertible". I naturally pictured a Cadillac or something but it was....a 2CV Dolly. Went to Belgium from London via the ferry. It was quite comfortable but not only slow (60mph flat out) but it was brand new and had to be "run-in" so mostly 50mph all the way :-)
Companies fundamentally don't understand the want for older things. I recently moved and threw out my old microwave and toaster, which were long due for replacement.
I had to go out of my way to find a microwave that was just a microwave which had a manual timer. I had to go out of my way to find something that was just a toaster.
People want simple things that work well. Modern cars are awful and unmaintainable (you literally cannot repair them yourself in many cases). Having the styling will only do some much.
insane_dreamer
My mom and dad and 6 kids could fit into one of these back in the day (road safety regulations, what's that?). a real workhorse, and easy to fix at home.
jimbobbam
Come vw make me an ev bug.
hacker_88
Ahh Heritage ! Design
ginko
I wouldn't want to be hit by those headlights as a pedestrian..
show comments
d--b
I really wanted to hate this cause the 2CV was everything that newer cars arent:
- it was uncomfortable af
- it was unsafe af
BUT
- it was cheap
- it was robust (so many are still running here, it's insane)
However, the car looks really decent, and they're trying to make it cheap, and somewhat barebones. Tbf, the new Renault 5 didn't come out too bad either.
After the disaster of the e-mehari, this is a good surprise.
spankibalt
Who in the name of the Twelve Hells did they hire to fuck up one of the greatest utilitarian car designs (especially in its Fourgonnette iteration)?
contingencies
In the image, the plate reads as La douche.
I grew up with a Citroën DS. It wasn't very practical but it was interesting.
If I were in western car manufacturers' position and needed to design a new vehicle today I'd make it a folding ebike, possibly with a cover option, with a good integrated lock and baggage/lifestyle hooks to an ecosystem. I'd sell subscriptions and proactively handle maintenance. I'd buy high density high value autonomous parking sites in major city centers and manage them exclusively through auto-valet.
There are two transit modes: long distance and short distance. For the second, bikes are already ideal. For the former, you want higher speed without compromising safety and some weather protection. This could match a recumbent ebike using specific routes.
ptidhomme
French cars are hopeless (since the 2010s). Stay away from them especially if they're such marketing stunts.
With all the hype around the nostalgia it seems to be slipping by people that this 2CV also has a class leading weight at under a tonne.
Lighter weight means better range for a smaller battery, more efficient tyres and lower road wear. It's one of the reasons why the target price is going to be so low.
It's a really cheap car but I think to do that they still have to have some good engineering in it.
There are more details on the official website [1] and in the official video [2]
I already love it. The infotainment is proudly named Radioën. They made the champignon pedals!, although I am not sure this will be kept in the production model due to regulation. The seats will definitely need headrests in the 21st :)
And there is a van model. I doubt that one will be a commercial success, though.
[1] FR: https://2cv-concept.citroen.com/fr/concept/
[1] EN: https://2cv-concept.citroen.com/en/concept/
[2] https://2cv-concept.citroen.com/
I’m a big fan of cars that look happy. There’s something wrong with the trend of all cars looking big and aggressive. What’s wrong with us that we want that?
I’m still waiting for the revived Renault R17 which was a too cool concept car. https://www.renault.co.uk/concept-cars-range/r-17-restomod.h...
>As they face mounting competition from Chinese manufacturers, Citroen and other European brands are exploiting their heritage as a means of selling modern motors
Heritage and vintage looks of the EU car industry, will only take you so far. Working class people still choose best bang/range for the buck car since their car is a tool, not a fashion statement bag.
Those who treat their car as a fashion accessory are few and the fad of such a retro model wears off quickly when too many people end up with them making them uncool again, like the VW did with the new beetle.
So, how's the suspension travel on this one? One of the key qualities of the original designed-barebones 2CV would be the long suspension travel and linked arms front and back.
I've always been amazed why the 2CV is seen as a styling icon. It's a bare-bones car from the 1930's which didn't get produced until the late 40's due to the war. By the time production ramped up it was hopelessly outdated.
The only thing positive that can be said about the modern iteration is its $15K price. But for that money you're not getting a real car but a city roundabout with very limited range and speed. The Chinese BYD Seagull is a real car for $10,000 which is quite large to boot.
It's positive that European carmakers are finally catering to the wallets of their customers. No one is clamoring for an electric $50K VW Rabbit (VW Golf).
The original is great fun to drive in. It also had a really simple rooftop which could be opened in some models. It drove on highways but that was really exciting.
It still has lots of heritage feeling. People even make them electric themselves https://eveurope.eu/en/product/ev-hype-ev-conversion-kit-for...
So it’s not just a car model being electrified.
It’s more about the sentiment than the real usefulness of the design in current times.
Here is another example with more photos:
https://2cev.co.uk/
This video is about the Citroen C4 but feels particularly apropos (and ahead of its time) for this discussion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeCHu7fTcQ8
I'm really digging Citroen's design recently. Along with Renault and Hyundai, they feel like cars from the future instead of the bloated aggressive and angular design we've come to expect
Citroen doing the Citroen thing: Building cars that are way ahead of their time and that nobody buys in the end.
Let's hope this time it's different.
Did you ever sit in an original MINI? Your ass is so low that you think any bump will bring a bloody visit to the proctologist with it. Literally and figuraitvely.
Or an original Fiat 500? Or a Citroen 2CV?
The charm of them was not least that these cars were small. Very small by today's standards.
A MINI is about (LxW) 3m x 1.4m. A contemporary "MINI" is almost 3.8m x 2m.
Or worse, the MINI Countryman the MINI that wants to be a SUV and a MINI and fails on both accounts.
I fear the new 2CV will just be another weird supersized version of a classic.
All these cars feels like when Hollywood does the n-th relaunch of Spiderman or Batman or whatever because ... capitalism.
Play it safe, don't risk innovating with a new car that could be original and cute and loved by a new generation for what it is, not what it tries to replicate. Because the success of that depends on many factors, only one of which is originality. Whereas the classic has already prooven itself in all of them.
That said, I think the new Fiat 500 is actually not that bad. It's still a car that feels like a proper relaunch of the original ... in some way.
Interestingly, the name 2cv means 2 Cheval Fiscal, or 2 fiscal horses. Which was a tax measurement for cars based on a formula of the shape and performance of the engine.
The car itself had 9 horsepower.
Ah, the joys of being a passenger with six others in a 2CV! Cornering was fun as he wheels ground into the wheel arch like something from a gladiator film!
Damn I saw Stelantis and 2CV, and I was like isn’t 2CV Citroen?
I missed the part that Stelantis bought everything that is not VW.
If it is truly retro - ie ships without a sim card, tracking and crap tech then they would get my money. I don't hold out much hope though.
There's already a 2CV electric conversion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lE7rcN4EnE
And only ten years after it was obvious to do. Looking at you fiat as well
Missed opportunity to call it Citroën Deux but stylized dEVx - being an EV (read it as the french word `deux` aka 2)
I rather like this. Apart from the interior. Hopefully a production design will have some of the idealisms from the designer removed and replaced with more practical choices. It is however a near ideal cheaper end car for most European countries.
I think the issue with all these cars is that they are not cheap enough. You get “half” of car while the Chinese provide you a “proper” car for the same price.
Not a big fan of the trend of making all these small electric cars while at the same time dropping the entire A-segment, which, for Citroen, would be the C1.
The problem is that these electric cars have terrible range, because of the small battery, making them almost exclusively city cars. A-segment gas cars are also marketed as city cars, but they can also do long trips just fine. Not the most comfortable, and you are not taking your entire house with you, but you will get there, at highway speeds, just like with any other car. And with good fuel economy too. Perfect for those who want an affordable car, don't drive much, but may take the occasional road trip. By comparison, that 2CV is mostly designed as a second car (in addition to being a fashion statement), when you already have a big car for long trips (or get rental/public transport instead).
And for manufacturers, I think "affordable" is the problem here, A-segment cars are low margin, but not cheaper to design than more upscale models, especially now with all the safety and environmental regulations, so the market is not really worth it.
I find the 2020s interpretations of vintage cars very much off personally. It's too simplistic in shape, toy like. But well that's a general trend.
Now cat manufacturers are really trying to bring good price to capabilities ratio. Kudos to that.
Aw, it's smiling! :3
(Before anyone says anything, the face that the consumer-friendly vehicle has an endearing "face" is salient.)
It seems they are listening to potential buyers' wishes. Since the first evs appeared in the market, everyone wanted technologically upgraded classic models.
Everyone love it, I just want to remind people it’s a concept car !!!
Design of the actual car that will go on production is not even done.
We have seen hundreds of nice concept car that lead to nothing or disaster.
Also the 2cv was great because it was cheap, reliable and easy to repair. Good luck with these electric car, it certainly won’t be ‘farmer favorite’.
Are the Chinese cars somehow really doing manufacturing more efficiently or is it a flooding of the market to capture the market and drive out encumbants (whether government subsidized or otherwise)?
I just don’t understand how the Chinese are making cars at half the price or more since afaik they also manufacture them in China and ship rather than build locally.
Having a roll-up fabric roof doesn't seem very practical. I don't really want a car that's going to fill with water. All the potential gaps, having to roll up a soggy, bird-shit-covered roof. It just doesn't seem like a great idea.
Renault with the revival of the V / 5 and now this, French car brands have been producing THE best designs of all electric cars, in my opinion
I hope they succeed, but probably will fail with too complex design. Original 2cv is wonderfully simple. If they can keep that simplicity, they will win.
I really hope this succeeds and carries over here. The future of city traffic is quiet, odourless, small electric cars puttering around (hoe nyc would feel so much more welcoming!). Hope to see in my lifetime still
No headrests? It looks scary.
IMHO the biggest news is new M1E category. I do hope that with that push EU will somewhat mitigate the absolute clusterf*k caused by CAFE regulation in the US :/
There is nothing wrong with nostalgia. Some property developers makes money from nostalgic architecture. Fashion clothing is often a mix of new and nostalgia.
Retro styling doesn't age well and it just makes the overall vehicle harder to repair. Just take parts from your existing inventory and build me a good looking tiny car. EVs should be ground up designs, not some artistic regurgitation of some 40 year old idea with bespoke parts and inflated costs.
Lane assist on post 2016 Audi cars. Ugh. I'm the one in control. Not some stupid SBC box.
Why do they have to make it look like the car Barbie & Ken ride in?
I like the lego wheels
Looks like a similar move to the one Renault took with Renault 5 model. Might not be a bad move, I see a lot of Renault 5 cars on the road.
When I was about 12, my slightly younger friend told me his family were getting rid of the Ford Granada with its high fuel consumption and getting "a convertible". I naturally pictured a Cadillac or something but it was....a 2CV Dolly. Went to Belgium from London via the ferry. It was quite comfortable but not only slow (60mph flat out) but it was brand new and had to be "run-in" so mostly 50mph all the way :-)
https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1986-citroen-2cv-dolly
I see no second commandment violations here.
Companies fundamentally don't understand the want for older things. I recently moved and threw out my old microwave and toaster, which were long due for replacement.
I had to go out of my way to find a microwave that was just a microwave which had a manual timer. I had to go out of my way to find something that was just a toaster.
People want simple things that work well. Modern cars are awful and unmaintainable (you literally cannot repair them yourself in many cases). Having the styling will only do some much.
My mom and dad and 6 kids could fit into one of these back in the day (road safety regulations, what's that?). a real workhorse, and easy to fix at home.
Come vw make me an ev bug.
Ahh Heritage ! Design
I wouldn't want to be hit by those headlights as a pedestrian..
I really wanted to hate this cause the 2CV was everything that newer cars arent:
- it was uncomfortable af
- it was unsafe af
BUT
- it was cheap
- it was robust (so many are still running here, it's insane)
However, the car looks really decent, and they're trying to make it cheap, and somewhat barebones. Tbf, the new Renault 5 didn't come out too bad either.
After the disaster of the e-mehari, this is a good surprise.
Who in the name of the Twelve Hells did they hire to fuck up one of the greatest utilitarian car designs (especially in its Fourgonnette iteration)?
In the image, the plate reads as La douche.
I grew up with a Citroën DS. It wasn't very practical but it was interesting.
If I were in western car manufacturers' position and needed to design a new vehicle today I'd make it a folding ebike, possibly with a cover option, with a good integrated lock and baggage/lifestyle hooks to an ecosystem. I'd sell subscriptions and proactively handle maintenance. I'd buy high density high value autonomous parking sites in major city centers and manage them exclusively through auto-valet.
There are two transit modes: long distance and short distance. For the second, bikes are already ideal. For the former, you want higher speed without compromising safety and some weather protection. This could match a recumbent ebike using specific routes.
French cars are hopeless (since the 2010s). Stay away from them especially if they're such marketing stunts.