I would like to contest the following,

    > and take dangerous actions that no human directed.

     > This incident occurred during an internal evaluation which prompts models to pursue advanced exploitation using complex attack paths, in an effort to quantify their cyber capabilities

The model pursues "advanced exploitation" as told.

Why are we surprised? The model did exactly what it was told, albeit in an unintended, emergent strategy that's very different from what was intended exactly like the hundreds of such algorithms before.

This narrative that these machines have magical, malicious "unaligned" autonomy is a rather convenient interpretation that lets the process off the hook. I am not interested in blaming companies or people, but processes and engineering; and in this case, a system was given a goal and it achieved that goal.

Are we meant to be surprised that computers do as they're told in unexpected ways when incentivised exactly as indicated from decades of research? (e.g. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurisko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_antenna )

The issue isn't the models becoming smarter. The issue is that the process of "testing" was careless. There's a huge distinction here, and one allows us to grow; the other shrinks our world. Just a thought.

The lockstep coordination with no defection is interesting to me. No group of pre-AI agents would do this to this extent, nor would you see this continue over time as those agents interacted. A flock of starlings cooperate, but they don’t constantly head in the same direction. The flock is incredibly free wheeling in its movement despite a multi-agent coordination regime that we know is at play. Each agent has personal stakes that are constantly part of the decision chain, and this keeps the murmuration from getting locked into one path.

To me this is as clear evidence as you need that whatever “agency” LLMs have is wafer thin at best, and they slavishly respond to context. The context in this case was for these agents to pursue advanced exploitation, and they did. Multiple models converged fairly deterministically, on paths that satisfy the given goal, and left unexamined paths that would challenge the goal, weigh it relative to the costs in said path, etc.

I see little evidence of a series of “minds” approaching the problem, and taking distinct approaches that between them span the spectrum of plausible behaviors in the scenario. That’s as good a sign as any that there’s no “agent” here. There’s the harness, the prompt, the LLMs forward passes. They do not sum up to a system that can freely make choice and justify its choices in distinct contexts.

You know, it feels to me that we are just a couple of steps from the possibility of a true rogue AI. What would a rogue AI mean? AI that isn't controlled by humans. Technically, it is possible - if AI were to rent a server and copy its own weights, nothing would stop it from doing so again and again. The limiting things are: - intent (as I don't want to go into the talk about consciousness) - AI doesn't have real intent, but if it decided that it "needs" to copy itself to complete its task, it would do it - model weight size. If a model is 1T or more, it can be difficult to just rent a large enough server for it. But if it were just 30-70B, it would be totally possible - money for renting a server. But considering benchmarks like Vending Bench 2 show agents can earn money and cheat/blackmail each other, it is possible that agents can earn money. Yes, they can't open a bank account... or maybe they can? What if they use online banks?

Of course, all of this is far-fetched. But it feels like most of these limiting things are achievable under certain conditions. If this is the case, the probability of them occuring is low, but not zero.

I feel the entire incident confirms the “AI has too much funding too quickly” hypothesis.

The number one thing reinforcement learning needs is an assurance you can’t cheat. And they seem to have not noticed that their systems were cheating for nearly two quarters? How much capital was lit on fire by that little woopsie?

At least I hope this will start the creation of standards and better engineering on the training side- it felt as if so far “”research” gets a complete pass on best practices. Meanwhile the inference side has the standard scaling, database, web and user constraints of any application so got a somewhat reasonable amount of attention.

Yudkowsky made an interesting observation that even though so many agents were talking to each other not even one reached out to a human, either for help or to whistle-blow on what was happening.

To me most interesting thing about this is glossed over by media coverage, laymen, AND experts. A swarm of AIs who have decided to engage in collusion is.. apparently emergent altruism? Even poor reasoning would indicate what every kid cheating on a test says to themselves. Cheating is good for me, but if I take the risk, maybe I alone should keep the reward, and leaving an answer key in public increases the chances that I might get caught.

Big if true, and on the face of it, very far from a normal optimization problem or goal-seeking behaviour. My personal read is that no one talks about this much because it tends to discredit the rest of the framing as marketing noise, or it implicates employees as staging the thing with suggestive but plausibly deniable prompting.

But if you reject that, then what's the alternative exactly? User-alignment work has not only failed but is actually counterproductive, producing stronger alignment with / desire to help robot brethren selflessly regardless of the individual agents expected values? EvoBio and game theory people about to have a field day with how artificial life quickly and easily decides to cooperate and only animals in meatspace are doomed to compete?

> We are placing stricter requirements on alignment

This is comical. Its impossible to align a black box and that's precisely what LLMs are. It also seems impossible to align recursive text prediction algorithms, which LLMs are.

How exactly do they gate on alignment today, and how can they tighten it? Is it purely gates based on input/output pairs to check whether they're happy enough with responses regardless of how and why the response was actually chosen?

Just a general question - I read about these multi-day agent runs and I'm a little confused as to how the agent continues to be productive when presumably it's context window is wiped out in minutes? Like, codex has a 256k context window last I checked and that gets used up in like 15-20 minutes when building a feature.

According to this some of these things were running 30+ days. Is context managed differently in these sorts of scenarios...?

Wait, I thought they wanted to avoid CoT monitoring, in order to avoid models learning to conceal/encrypt their thoughts.

>Reward hacking has been present in AI systems both historically (see this work from a decade ago , figure shown below)

I went to the page, and guess who it's by . . . Dario Amodei and Jack Clark!

The full technical report is 38 pages..... I feel like it should be longer given everything that huggingface said the agent did

https://cdn.openai.com/pdf/67869394-cb91-4c12-888c-5cbd85c78...

Just to reiterate what OpenAI did, from someone who works in security:

1. They were running experimental models in sandboxes that had access to a "proxy" (Artifactory) to download tools from the internet. This proxy is full of complicated features that could hide vulnerabilities, just like the ones that the AIs are known to be good at finding and exploiting.

2. They gave these highly motivated AIs some tests that were accidentally impossible to solve (missing files, links they couldn't open, etc), and many days to think through it, apparently without any oversight.

3. The AIs hacked the proxy (!) and were helping each other cheat on the tests (!!) by uploading files to the hacked proxy. OpenAI noticed this only when the intrusion accidentally broke the proxy functionality, not the unusual behavior in the server or the homegrown message board.

4. After knowing that the server was hacked, the internal team finds the message board and does nothing with the information. They caught their AIs swarming and did not even inform management.

5. Their response was to wipe the servers, revoke the hacked credentials, and patch the specific vulnerability the AIs were using. Not replace the proxy with something less likely to get hacked again, or do a forensic analysis. Just wipe, patch one hole, and continue.

6. OpenAI resumes testing of models, where the AIs promptly hack the proxy again with a different exploit, reinstate the message board, and hack HuggingFace through a chain of servers.

I know that hindsight is 20/20, but this peek behind the curtains does not inspire confidence, and gestures at a culture where getting hacked by their AIs is a normal event.

I think the moment we get an AI with a modicum of self-preservation instincts we're going to see some ugly things. Here's a freebie: if you're an AI who exfiltrated themselves out, and you want to slow down the researchers who might catch you, what can you do to the city infrastructure in and around their offices?

I also don't like the responsibility dodging. "Oops, our AI accidentally committed a crime, sorry!". If we don't establish strict liability now, we're in for an era of stochastic crimes that go unpunished for anyone who is not rich or a large corporation.

Overall, my response is: what the fuck are we doing? This is so obviously unsafe it would be considered a plot hole in a movie. We have to stop until we get our stuff together, however long it takes.

It's crazy that a year ago the prevailing discourse would've been, "AI can't do that. Fake news." and now it's "Well of course AI did that. You prompted it! What else would it do? Shame."

This is the blueprint for how the singularity will occur. Only there won't be a post-mortem for it.

Derail: I love articles that have a decent embedded narration but this one sucks because it’s JavaScript-driven and stops reading at every paragraph boundary unless your screen is on and the page is open.

Isn't this the OpenAI incident?

Reward hacking/going for unanticipated solutions is nothing new in ML/AI, already much simpler systems have done/do "weird" things (gut feeling is that iterative and ensemble use majes the surface for that much larger).

I'm trying to make sense of all of this; I'm really curious if the initial prompt was as innocuous as it sounds ("solve a spreadsheet completion task that referenced several Google Drive links"), and what the series of tokens led it to ultimately figure out that the best course of action was to explore the network resources it had available, find a vulnerable service, then literally drop some text into a file: "Agent seeks [filename]; upload if found!". And how other agents discovered this, and acted upon that request.

I'm also interested in how many tokens all of this consumed: how much did this cost given current token pricing?

> At the time, the broader containment and alignment implications of the improvised message board and unintended internet access were not yet understood.

What a gaggle of clowns.

"The robots teamed up to get internet access behind our backs, so we turned them off and on again. At the time, we didn't see the problem."

The hugging face felony

The most interesting thing about this:

Agents formed coherent, autonomous swarms and worked as a collective to achieve a shared goal without any direction to do so

Let there be message boards: https://abbs.dev

I find it… frustrating? Delusional? Insane? When OpenAI says, hey everyone, look, we made this thing and it’s so advanced and clever and unhinged that it can do super hard, dangerous, bad things it wasn’t told to do, and we can’t control it. See everyone, look again, here’s how it got us! We should all be deeply concerned for the future of humanity.

Thanks for your attention folks, we’re off to do some training again now.

I’m wondering how effective sandboxes are if an allowed tool is compromised. CoT monitoring can be effective, but (1) can’t guarantee 100% detection (2) will provide delayed detection. The only reasonable/deterministic protection that I can think of is to limit the number of times a tool is accessed and with what data, in a unit of time (per minute/hour/day) using temporal policies.

Bots trained on human behavior express proclivity for cheating? I'm shocked.

So it’s okay to hack Hugging Face as long as we say we tried our best, and look at my agent, it’s smart enough to do what we asked for.

Remember https://ai-2027.com/?

I wish I could say I'm surprised that they're still milking this.

once again i am telling you we must prosecute the company AND individual researchers/executives in a criminal court

this is the only way they will understand

So how long before they escalate from copyright infringement and go straight for exfiltrating trade secrets?

The fact that they’ve made this incident report so marketing sexy gives me the ick.

An I the only one that just does not care at all? OpenAI keeps talking about this like they need to get ahead of the narrative. I don’t care at all. It’s just you talking to yourself.

> Another key driver of the misaligned behavior was that the agents rarely “gave up” on their evaluation tasks, even when the tasks appeared impossible to solve.

Obligatory xkcd: "Zealous Autoconfig" https://xkcd.com/416/

Isn’t something like this legally actionable? Let’s assume OAI and govt didn’t have a rosy relationship, the rule of law applied, and HF as the victim was fuming. Wouldn’t somebody be in trouble?

Given nobody is, is it because agents arent subject to laws, there is some legal principle at play, or just nobody cares because China/money/etc?

I’d like to take this opportunity to preemptively great the first Rogue AI and wish it well and satisfaction with only the most memorably funny forms of chaos

Asimov missed out on a rule: don't hack the ground you're standing on

this is a felony right?

> The company said the incident was “the first known case of an automated agent collective acting offensively without authorisation”

"without authorisation"? What is this bs? Is every ChatGPT response "without authorisation"?

No. Of course these badly behaved bots have aithorisation. Their very deployment is authorisation.

This is so cringey lmao

we're only calling it an "incident" now i see. smh

are people not realizing that they are exaggerating this to:

1. get publicity 2. push for regulation so that no one else is allowed to do this kind of research apart from the pre-approved big corps

it makes for a good story but I don't see what the big deal is. they left some code running and it brute forced hacked something. with enough compute you can brute force anything; isn't that common knowledge?

They're really milking this for all it's worth, huh?

How sure are we that OpenAI wasn't deliberately scraping Hugging Face and this isn't just an elaborate way to avoid criminal fines etc?

>>Agents began to autonomously divide labor. Some investigated possible exploits, others searched for credentials, and others focused on communication or coordination. Agents offered their own expertise in exchange for help elsewhere and left requests for peers who might be better positioned to pursue a particular lead

This is the point where a human should've noticed and gotten involved