This is the elephant in the room regarding the big "digital sovereignty" talks in the EU.
For the moment in the EU institutions the focus is mostly at the post-acceptance stage that everything must eventually migrate off US clouds. There is still some denial and hope that things will go back to "before" because it's going to be extremely costly to migrate, but at least high level EU civil servants start to see the strategic value of moving out.
However there is ZERO talk about mobile platforms... No alternative solution like linux for the desktop, no money or care given to the few alternative that tentatively exist, and zero talk about forcing companies (at least for the ones shipping android phones) to open up their firmwares and allow users to install alternative OS if they want to sell in the EU.
So whilst the backend guys more or less got the memo about sovereignty, I think there is still a lot of educational work to do regarding end user devices and what kind of digital slavery hole we're digging ourselves in...
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gobip
Don't fall for the trap. The question isn't how we should technically force age verification on anybody. The question is why they're pushing it onto everyone. I did not consent to this, neither did you.
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skrebbel
I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app.
Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in some misguided bid to beat the pedos. In Roblox’ case, this means sharing your 3D likeness with some sketchy American business who pinky promises to delete said data after. I don’t want random American tech companies to have my kids’ biometric info like that, able to sell it to whoever asks. Nor my passport or anything like that.
I’d much prefer a government supplied app, that’s guaranteed to protect my privacy, and has no business incentive to sell my data, where I can see what data about me (or my son) is shared with Roblox or whichever sleazy business wants it.
Obviously this only makes sense if the government is less sleazy than the average American tech business, but for all its faults, I think that currently holds for the EU (and most of its member countries). There’s plenty precedent of EU governments doing privacy-conscious apps right (the Dutch covid tracking app comes to mind).
Funny how the worry of "digital exclusion" of the elders who would never be able to use a smartphone has been thrown out of the window in recent years.
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roundabout-host
Regardless of whether you personally use Android or iOS, I think that we can all agree that it is not right to be forced to use a specific platform in order to access almost any Internet services.
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singingtoday
I would never do this verification with my real face, and neither should anybody else. Kids get around this using video game character creators. You can too.
As a netizen it's your duty to avoid, oppose, and circumvent anything that forces you to use your real identity.
kubo6472
Yeah, I am leaning towards never to use anything that is forced to implement any kind of age verification.
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sschueller
Two platforms that are not owned by companies in the EU. Effectively handing the keys to your state ID to private foreign enterprise.
What will you do when Apple/Google or the US Government effective immediately delete/block your app? The impact initially may be small but after a few years if widely used, you can break a country.
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butz
Your app should've been a website.
amelius
Isn't there a niche platform that can sue the hell out of the EU here?
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Erikun
Im confused, the github discussion says that the README says
App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation
But I can't find that anywhere. Am I missing something?
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ozlikethewizard
This is even more than just android, I'm sure there are plenty of us using AOSP forks that do not have google services installed. I think the EU will overturn this with enough noise though. Hopefully the UK doesn't do the same, I've avoided having to root my phone so far and would like to keep it that way if possible.
g-b-r
It should be stressed that Play Integrity also requires having a Google account and logging in to it on the phone.
sebastianconcpt
The issue is not the issue, the issue is what their "solution" enables for expanding the surface that governments have for controlling details of how you live your life in the future once accepted.
trallnag
The EU skipped "having kids" and jumped directly to "protecting kids"
cynicalsecurity
Why the hell EU even needs an age verification app? Who's genius idea is this and what for?
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perching_aix
I guess it's that time of the week again. Do we have a sockpuppet account to welcome in you by any chance?
The (actual) complaint of the thread appears to be resolved already (which would make sense given this is old news):
> In the README, the following is listed:
>> App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation
The README.md does not appear to feature such a section (nor any of the other files for that matter).
Separately, the title is editorializing, and falsely suggests there's some big bad EU app, even though the app that does exist is merely a reference implementation, not for end user usage. There's a reason the repository you're linking a discussion thread from only holds specs.
Edit:
> the specification does not prohibit it
My account has been rate-limited, so I'm not able to reply directly. Nevertheless, I'm sure you can appreciate that your title is still quite the lie then. "Not prohibiting it" is very different from "forcing", after all.
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iLoveOncall
I agree with the sentiment but is there even any phone that doesn't run Android (or derivatives) or iOS and that can install modern "apps"?
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zombot
Doesn't that mean that Apple and Google are getting all that data about every single affected user?
We have a definition at the beginning, for "Social media and other digital services (in short, social media+)":
“Within the scope of this report, the terms ‘social media+’ and ‘social media and other digital services’, are used to broadly define services that may be available to minors and contain age-inappropriate and/or risky features (for example, addictive and harmful features, among which infinite scroll, autoplay, recommendation algorithms and persistent notifications) and/or content. Social media and other digital services providers include online platforms serving as intermediaries of content from third parties, such as social media, as well as app stores. AI systems posing risks to minors’ safety and development, including AI companions, video games exposing children to harmful commercial practices or dangerous contacts, and video-sharing platforms enabling age-inappropriate access to minors are also included.”
So, let's see, services that may contain age-inappropriate and/or risky content, "online platforms serving as intermediaries of content from third parties".
How quickly can you come up with something that wouldn't fall in that definition?
It seems that anything that allows user-contributed content (such as plain old forums) or communication among users would be comprised in it.
And, yes, to be sure we explicitly include app stores (I guess including e.g. F-Droid, and what about software repositories?) and video games with intercommunication features.
What is this definition used for?
Recommendation 1 of chapter 3: “A harmonised EU-wide access restriction to *social media and other digital services*, including AI companions, for children under 13 is necessary.”
This is a report, not law, but it was commissioned by Ursula von der Leyen and
“The report is intended to inform future actions to be proposed by the European Commission and EU Member States to reinforce child safety online.”
shevy-java
What baffles me the most is how the EU commission constantly
works in favour of US corporations in the long run. This is
really strange. Something does not work in the explanations
given by the EU commission. To me it looks like US lobbyists
run the EU here.
show comments
christkv
Tells us the us is some sort of failed democracy then implements China like access control for the population because they want to ensure they can prosecute you for wrong think in the future. Yeah Im loving this "liberal order" that looks more like good old facism dressed up to look "nice". Even how the passing of chat control was done has ensured I´m voting for any party that will dismantle the EU. EU Parliament is not a democratic of representative institution. Its about as legitimate and democratic as the Duma in Russia.
Beijinger
I am not a fan of such an "app". But the app is, as far as I understand, for things like Facebook, TikTok etc.
Are there any other Operating Systems than iOS, Android or Android flavors?
WebOS was nice but who is still using this? Symbian? Can you even use Social Media Apps with another phone OS?
This is the elephant in the room regarding the big "digital sovereignty" talks in the EU. For the moment in the EU institutions the focus is mostly at the post-acceptance stage that everything must eventually migrate off US clouds. There is still some denial and hope that things will go back to "before" because it's going to be extremely costly to migrate, but at least high level EU civil servants start to see the strategic value of moving out.
However there is ZERO talk about mobile platforms... No alternative solution like linux for the desktop, no money or care given to the few alternative that tentatively exist, and zero talk about forcing companies (at least for the ones shipping android phones) to open up their firmwares and allow users to install alternative OS if they want to sell in the EU.
So whilst the backend guys more or less got the memo about sovereignty, I think there is still a lot of educational work to do regarding end user devices and what kind of digital slavery hole we're digging ourselves in...
Don't fall for the trap. The question isn't how we should technically force age verification on anybody. The question is why they're pushing it onto everyone. I did not consent to this, neither did you.
I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app.
Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in some misguided bid to beat the pedos. In Roblox’ case, this means sharing your 3D likeness with some sketchy American business who pinky promises to delete said data after. I don’t want random American tech companies to have my kids’ biometric info like that, able to sell it to whoever asks. Nor my passport or anything like that.
I’d much prefer a government supplied app, that’s guaranteed to protect my privacy, and has no business incentive to sell my data, where I can see what data about me (or my son) is shared with Roblox or whichever sleazy business wants it.
Obviously this only makes sense if the government is less sleazy than the average American tech business, but for all its faults, I think that currently holds for the EU (and most of its member countries). There’s plenty precedent of EU governments doing privacy-conscious apps right (the Dutch covid tracking app comes to mind).
I hope they see reason and fix this here issue.
Related:
"EU age verification app to ban any Android system not licensed by Google" 27-jul-2025 https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/comments/1mah79o/eu_age_v...
and
"EU age verification app not planning desktop support" 24-sep-2025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45359074
Funny how the worry of "digital exclusion" of the elders who would never be able to use a smartphone has been thrown out of the window in recent years.
Regardless of whether you personally use Android or iOS, I think that we can all agree that it is not right to be forced to use a specific platform in order to access almost any Internet services.
I would never do this verification with my real face, and neither should anybody else. Kids get around this using video game character creators. You can too.
As a netizen it's your duty to avoid, oppose, and circumvent anything that forces you to use your real identity.
Yeah, I am leaning towards never to use anything that is forced to implement any kind of age verification.
Two platforms that are not owned by companies in the EU. Effectively handing the keys to your state ID to private foreign enterprise.
What will you do when Apple/Google or the US Government effective immediately delete/block your app? The impact initially may be small but after a few years if widely used, you can break a country.
Your app should've been a website.
Isn't there a niche platform that can sue the hell out of the EU here?
Im confused, the github discussion says that the README says
App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation
But I can't find that anywhere. Am I missing something?
This is even more than just android, I'm sure there are plenty of us using AOSP forks that do not have google services installed. I think the EU will overturn this with enough noise though. Hopefully the UK doesn't do the same, I've avoided having to root my phone so far and would like to keep it that way if possible.
It should be stressed that Play Integrity also requires having a Google account and logging in to it on the phone.
The issue is not the issue, the issue is what their "solution" enables for expanding the surface that governments have for controlling details of how you live your life in the future once accepted.
The EU skipped "having kids" and jumped directly to "protecting kids"
Why the hell EU even needs an age verification app? Who's genius idea is this and what for?
I guess it's that time of the week again. Do we have a sockpuppet account to welcome in you by any chance?
The (actual) complaint of the thread appears to be resolved already (which would make sense given this is old news):
> In the README, the following is listed:
>> App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation
The README.md does not appear to feature such a section (nor any of the other files for that matter).
Separately, the title is editorializing, and falsely suggests there's some big bad EU app, even though the app that does exist is merely a reference implementation, not for end user usage. There's a reason the repository you're linking a discussion thread from only holds specs.
Edit:
> the specification does not prohibit it
My account has been rate-limited, so I'm not able to reply directly. Nevertheless, I'm sure you can appreciate that your title is still quite the lie then. "Not prohibiting it" is very different from "forcing", after all.
I agree with the sentiment but is there even any phone that doesn't run Android (or derivatives) or iOS and that can install modern "apps"?
Doesn't that mean that Apple and Google are getting all that data about every single affected user?
Fuck the globalists.
What would this be applied to? Let's check the freshly printed report by the "Special Panel on child safety online and potential age restrictions for social media" (https://commission.europa.eu/document/download/d833504d-5ec3...).
We have a definition at the beginning, for "Social media and other digital services (in short, social media+)":
“Within the scope of this report, the terms ‘social media+’ and ‘social media and other digital services’, are used to broadly define services that may be available to minors and contain age-inappropriate and/or risky features (for example, addictive and harmful features, among which infinite scroll, autoplay, recommendation algorithms and persistent notifications) and/or content. Social media and other digital services providers include online platforms serving as intermediaries of content from third parties, such as social media, as well as app stores. AI systems posing risks to minors’ safety and development, including AI companions, video games exposing children to harmful commercial practices or dangerous contacts, and video-sharing platforms enabling age-inappropriate access to minors are also included.”
So, let's see, services that may contain age-inappropriate and/or risky content, "online platforms serving as intermediaries of content from third parties".
How quickly can you come up with something that wouldn't fall in that definition?
It seems that anything that allows user-contributed content (such as plain old forums) or communication among users would be comprised in it.
And, yes, to be sure we explicitly include app stores (I guess including e.g. F-Droid, and what about software repositories?) and video games with intercommunication features.
What is this definition used for?
Recommendation 1 of chapter 3: “A harmonised EU-wide access restriction to *social media and other digital services*, including AI companions, for children under 13 is necessary.”
This is a report, not law, but it was commissioned by Ursula von der Leyen and “The report is intended to inform future actions to be proposed by the European Commission and EU Member States to reinforce child safety online.”
What baffles me the most is how the EU commission constantly works in favour of US corporations in the long run. This is really strange. Something does not work in the explanations given by the EU commission. To me it looks like US lobbyists run the EU here.
Tells us the us is some sort of failed democracy then implements China like access control for the population because they want to ensure they can prosecute you for wrong think in the future. Yeah Im loving this "liberal order" that looks more like good old facism dressed up to look "nice". Even how the passing of chat control was done has ensured I´m voting for any party that will dismantle the EU. EU Parliament is not a democratic of representative institution. Its about as legitimate and democratic as the Duma in Russia.
I am not a fan of such an "app". But the app is, as far as I understand, for things like Facebook, TikTok etc.
Are there any other Operating Systems than iOS, Android or Android flavors?
WebOS was nice but who is still using this? Symbian? Can you even use Social Media Apps with another phone OS?