Nvidia invested $2b into CoreWeave for 9% equity stake. CoreWeave is spending $35b in CapEx in 2026. Therefore, Nvidia's investment is only 5.7% of CoreWeave's single year CapEx. The other $32b is coming from other sources that isn't Nvidia. This is hardly circular.
Nvidia invests in Neoclouds because it's a hedge against hyperscalers having too much power, ie designing and prioritizing their own chips, and not fully using Nvidia's rack design. Neoclouds give hyperscalers competition. Neoclouds accept Nvidia investments because it allows them to secure Nvidia chips first, which is a competitive advantage since new Nvidia chips have been as much as ~5-20x more efficient than old Nvidia chips.
Nvidia was planning to directly compete against hyperscalers through DGX Cloud. They cancelled public DGX Cloud access when they found that investing in Neoclouds would accomplish the same goals without having to compete against their biggest customers.
If you're Nvidia, it's smart because Neoclouds that you have a large stake in will deploy your full stack from GPUs to networking to storage racks. They will share valuable usage data back to you so you can design a better next generation. Hyperscalers are likely a lot less cooperative, prefer to use their own designs if possible, and will guard their usage data.
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ilaksh
Dumb question, but when the Nebius capacity dashboard says they have around 3 non-preemptible B200s available, does that mean _total_, or is it just how many I myself might be able to rent on demand?
One aspect of the profitability might be the utilization and the pricing a few years down the line for slightly older hardware. Already now it seems like the increased processing you get from newer devices versus the cost difference makes something like an H100 or even A100 significantly less desirable than newer more powerful ones. As an individual, I am happy to be able to get an H200 on demand, but the B200 or B300 can do so much more work with optimized software and models for only modestly more cost that if those become available then from a business perspective you really have to prefer that if you can keep it occupied.
Then with Vera Rubin being like 3 times more effective or whatever, that adds a new layer of gradual obsolescence. So the question is can they keep the pricing up on the older ones a few years down the line enough to fill out the end of those expected payback periods.
The real boogeyman for a neocloud that has heavily invested in expensive Nvidia hardware might be a variation of that beyond Nvidia with startups that have even more dramatic efficiency increases pushing the leading edge even further. For example, if companies like Mythic AI and d-Matrix could somehow rapidly rapidly scale, that would push prices down for all of Nvidia hardware that is significantly less efficient.
I guess so far it doesn't look like any startups with really big efficiency breakthroughs are even close to being able to scale like Nvidia though, especially with the manufacturing and power crunch. But I suspect some of that is because of favoritism and strong arming protecting investments rather than a free and fair ecosystem.
show comments
bwfan123
Circular financing is a dead horse - dont beat it. Instead, what is more interesting could be: Is there a path to these builds becoming economically profitable ? Towards this, some metrics to watch are: 1) ROI per token per dollar 2) Enterprise token budgets. And at what point there is an overbuild relative to the token roi. Alternatively, pressure on token costs due to the open weights models etc.
show comments
darksim905
This isn't really related to the post, but I need to vent I suppose.
CoreWeave feels very YC-ish. I thought I had an in as a referral for a position there and got interviewed by someone who knew a lot of my peers where I worked. Dude seemed to ask very textbook style questions that you would only learn if you went to a school system for this particular position/subject. I guess I didn't answer to their satisfaction despite knowing more than them on almost everything else. I suppose I'm still bitter seeing as I interviewed with them three times for two different roles. Absolutely wild.
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RetroTechie
Might be a blessing in disguise that these companies can't roll out datacenters as quick as they want (due to financing, power issues, permit delays or whatever).
That puts a cap on surplus (potentially unused?) datacenter capacity that's around by the time the AI bubble pops.
show comments
yalogin
I don’t know if the circular financing is a problem. NVIDIA is the best my name in town, any company has to spend on NVIDIA assets for their compute. Now that makes NVIDIA rich and so they don’t know what to do with their money. They are just propping up companies they find interesting
Aboutplants
Does AI end up being much closer to a Crypto style result late 2010’s-early 2020’s) or is it closer to the Web style late 90s landscape?
Both had somewhat similar early outcomes for a lot of the initial front runners with some experiencing legal issues and others collapsing due to sketchy finances. Crypto ended up not being as earth shattering as most believers wanted it to be but there are still many billionaires and large companies that exist and continue to churn profit. Will a similar fate exist for AI companies? A few large winners, lots of large/medium/small losers (with some taking the legal and financial hits) but a decently large industry (not earth shattering) survives and establishes to simply be a small piece of the greater economy rather than the primary driver as most AI truthers believe?
show comments
charcircuit
Would this author prefer that Nvidia buy equity using GPUs directly? I don't think it actually counts as circular.
show comments
fHr
bro if I get a cent for every time the bubble and circular finance guys tell me it's all fraud and we crash in 3 2 1, I would be richer then going long memory...
ulfw
This bubble bursting will make us all poor
show comments
mschuster91
I've said it before, I will say it again: all that circular investment, all the IOUs, all the billions of dollars of money that are floating around in the entire AI web... it will seriously wreck the US economy, the volume is orders of magnitude worse than what caused the 2007ff global financial crisis. But if OpenAI and Anthropic both manage to enter the fray as well and automatically get made part of the NASDAQ and MSCI World like SpaceX already did... yeah, then it will fry the US pension system alive as well.
show comments
anon291
All financing is circular. This concern is beyond the pale contrived
Financing is circular because creating a liability for one party (debt) creates an asset for another (the bank) off of which more debt can be secured
A bank / financier sells trust and reassurance. They otherwise invent most money from thin air.
show comments
shevy-java
With the rising prices of RAM, I feel these companies owe us money - in particular NVIDIA. I feel that the "free" market is not working when you have de-facto monopolies, as is the case right now. The AI explosion exposed that problem. Why are politicians not doing anything? Too bribed already?
show comments
dainiusse
Yandex, not nebius. Surprised how the world gets on kgb again and again, and again
show comments
cmiles8
It’s all fine till it’s not. Then it’s a gigantic financial house of cards that comes crashing down.
Why is it a big deal?
Nvidia invested $2b into CoreWeave for 9% equity stake. CoreWeave is spending $35b in CapEx in 2026. Therefore, Nvidia's investment is only 5.7% of CoreWeave's single year CapEx. The other $32b is coming from other sources that isn't Nvidia. This is hardly circular.
Nvidia invests in Neoclouds because it's a hedge against hyperscalers having too much power, ie designing and prioritizing their own chips, and not fully using Nvidia's rack design. Neoclouds give hyperscalers competition. Neoclouds accept Nvidia investments because it allows them to secure Nvidia chips first, which is a competitive advantage since new Nvidia chips have been as much as ~5-20x more efficient than old Nvidia chips.
Nvidia was planning to directly compete against hyperscalers through DGX Cloud. They cancelled public DGX Cloud access when they found that investing in Neoclouds would accomplish the same goals without having to compete against their biggest customers.
If you're Nvidia, it's smart because Neoclouds that you have a large stake in will deploy your full stack from GPUs to networking to storage racks. They will share valuable usage data back to you so you can design a better next generation. Hyperscalers are likely a lot less cooperative, prefer to use their own designs if possible, and will guard their usage data.
Dumb question, but when the Nebius capacity dashboard says they have around 3 non-preemptible B200s available, does that mean _total_, or is it just how many I myself might be able to rent on demand?
One aspect of the profitability might be the utilization and the pricing a few years down the line for slightly older hardware. Already now it seems like the increased processing you get from newer devices versus the cost difference makes something like an H100 or even A100 significantly less desirable than newer more powerful ones. As an individual, I am happy to be able to get an H200 on demand, but the B200 or B300 can do so much more work with optimized software and models for only modestly more cost that if those become available then from a business perspective you really have to prefer that if you can keep it occupied.
Then with Vera Rubin being like 3 times more effective or whatever, that adds a new layer of gradual obsolescence. So the question is can they keep the pricing up on the older ones a few years down the line enough to fill out the end of those expected payback periods.
The real boogeyman for a neocloud that has heavily invested in expensive Nvidia hardware might be a variation of that beyond Nvidia with startups that have even more dramatic efficiency increases pushing the leading edge even further. For example, if companies like Mythic AI and d-Matrix could somehow rapidly rapidly scale, that would push prices down for all of Nvidia hardware that is significantly less efficient.
I guess so far it doesn't look like any startups with really big efficiency breakthroughs are even close to being able to scale like Nvidia though, especially with the manufacturing and power crunch. But I suspect some of that is because of favoritism and strong arming protecting investments rather than a free and fair ecosystem.
Circular financing is a dead horse - dont beat it. Instead, what is more interesting could be: Is there a path to these builds becoming economically profitable ? Towards this, some metrics to watch are: 1) ROI per token per dollar 2) Enterprise token budgets. And at what point there is an overbuild relative to the token roi. Alternatively, pressure on token costs due to the open weights models etc.
This isn't really related to the post, but I need to vent I suppose.
CoreWeave feels very YC-ish. I thought I had an in as a referral for a position there and got interviewed by someone who knew a lot of my peers where I worked. Dude seemed to ask very textbook style questions that you would only learn if you went to a school system for this particular position/subject. I guess I didn't answer to their satisfaction despite knowing more than them on almost everything else. I suppose I'm still bitter seeing as I interviewed with them three times for two different roles. Absolutely wild.
Might be a blessing in disguise that these companies can't roll out datacenters as quick as they want (due to financing, power issues, permit delays or whatever).
That puts a cap on surplus (potentially unused?) datacenter capacity that's around by the time the AI bubble pops.
I don’t know if the circular financing is a problem. NVIDIA is the best my name in town, any company has to spend on NVIDIA assets for their compute. Now that makes NVIDIA rich and so they don’t know what to do with their money. They are just propping up companies they find interesting
Does AI end up being much closer to a Crypto style result late 2010’s-early 2020’s) or is it closer to the Web style late 90s landscape? Both had somewhat similar early outcomes for a lot of the initial front runners with some experiencing legal issues and others collapsing due to sketchy finances. Crypto ended up not being as earth shattering as most believers wanted it to be but there are still many billionaires and large companies that exist and continue to churn profit. Will a similar fate exist for AI companies? A few large winners, lots of large/medium/small losers (with some taking the legal and financial hits) but a decently large industry (not earth shattering) survives and establishes to simply be a small piece of the greater economy rather than the primary driver as most AI truthers believe?
Would this author prefer that Nvidia buy equity using GPUs directly? I don't think it actually counts as circular.
bro if I get a cent for every time the bubble and circular finance guys tell me it's all fraud and we crash in 3 2 1, I would be richer then going long memory...
This bubble bursting will make us all poor
I've said it before, I will say it again: all that circular investment, all the IOUs, all the billions of dollars of money that are floating around in the entire AI web... it will seriously wreck the US economy, the volume is orders of magnitude worse than what caused the 2007ff global financial crisis. But if OpenAI and Anthropic both manage to enter the fray as well and automatically get made part of the NASDAQ and MSCI World like SpaceX already did... yeah, then it will fry the US pension system alive as well.
All financing is circular. This concern is beyond the pale contrived
Financing is circular because creating a liability for one party (debt) creates an asset for another (the bank) off of which more debt can be secured
A bank / financier sells trust and reassurance. They otherwise invent most money from thin air.
With the rising prices of RAM, I feel these companies owe us money - in particular NVIDIA. I feel that the "free" market is not working when you have de-facto monopolies, as is the case right now. The AI explosion exposed that problem. Why are politicians not doing anything? Too bribed already?
Yandex, not nebius. Surprised how the world gets on kgb again and again, and again
It’s all fine till it’s not. Then it’s a gigantic financial house of cards that comes crashing down.