You are missing another dimension how easy it would be to migrate if adding new feature hits a ceiling and LLM keeps breaking the system.
Imagine all tests are passing and code is confirming the spec, but everything is denormalized because LLM thought this was a nice idea at the beginning since no one mentioned that requirement in the spec. After a while you want to add a feature which requires normalized table and LLM keeps failing, but you also have no idea how this complex system works.
Don't forget that very very detailed spec is actually the code
ramoz
> If I had to roll out such a development process today, I’d make a standardized Markdown specification the new unit of knowledge for the software project. Product owners and engineers could initially collaborate on this spec and on test cases to enforce business rules. Those should be checked into the project repositories along with the implementing code. There would need to be automated pull-request checks verifying not only that tests pass but that code conforms to the spec. This specification, and not the code that materializes it, is what the team would need to understand, review, and be held accountable for.
The constant urge I have today is for some sort of spec or simpler facts to be continuously verified at any point in the development process; Something agents would need to be aware of. I agree with the blog and think it's going to become a team sport to manage these requirements. I'm going to try this out by evolving my open source tool [1] (used to review specs and code) into a bit more of a collaborative & integrated plane for product specs/facts - https://plannotator.ai/workspaces/
Is it? All the electricity and capital investment in computing hardware costs real money. Is this properly reflected in the fees that AI companies charge or is venture capital propping each one up in the hope that they will kill off the competition before they run out of (usually other people's) money?
show comments
tyleo
The underlying mechanism is still the same: humans type and products come out.
So something which must be true if this author is right is that whatever the new language is—the thing people are typing into markdown—must be able to express the same rigor in less words than existing source code.
Otherwise the result is just legacy coding in a new programming language.
show comments
phyzix5761
I wonder if with the speed of iteration with AI the industry will switch back to waterfall. Clear documentation first so the LLM can easily produce what's being asked with a round of testing before going back to the documentation stage and running it again. History does repeat itself.
show comments
jmull
The lesson I've learned from our new AI age is how little a large number of people who've worked in software development their entire careers understand software development.
I suppose all the money floating around AI helps dummify everything, as people glom on to narratives, regardless of merit, that might position them to partake.
What we actually have now is the ability to bang out decent quality code really fast and cheaply.
This is massive, a huge change, one which upends numerous assumptions about the business of software development.
...and it only leaves us to work through every other aspect of software development.
The approach this article advocates is to essentially pretend none of this exists. Simple, but will rarely produce anything of value.
This paragraph from the post gives you the gist of it:
> ...we need to remove humans-in-the-loop, reduce coordination, friction, bureaucracy, and gate-keeping. We need a virtually infinite supply of requirements, engineers acting as pseudo-product designers, owning entire streams of work, with the purview to make autonomous decisions. Rework is almost free so we shouldn’t make an effort to prevent incorrect work from happening.
As if the only reason we ever had POs or designers or business teams, or built consensus between multiple people, or communicated with others, or reviewed designs and code, or tested software, was because it took individual engineers too long to bang out decent code.
AI has just gotten people completely lost. Or I guess just made it apparent they were lost the whole time?
show comments
montroser
This could very well be a pattern that some teams evolve into. Specs are the new source -- they describe the architectural approach, as well as the business rules and user experience details. End to end tests are described here too. This all is what goes through PRs and review process, and the code becomes a build artifact.
show comments
Ozzie-D
the irony is that AI is making this exact problem worse. ppl are generating entire codebases now without reading any of it -- the flag might as well be the default. the skill thats actually becoming scarce isnt writing code, its reading code you didnt write and knowing if its correct.
moritzwarhier
Entertaining flag name!
React team seems to really have set a precedent with their "dangerouslySetInnerHTML" idea.
Or did they borrow it somewhere?
I'm just curious about that etymology, of course the idea is not universally helpful: for example, for dd CLI parameters, it would only make a mess.
But when there's a flag/option that really requires you to be vigilant and undesired the input and output and all edge cases, calling it "dangerous" is quite a feat!
show comments
retinaros
markdown became the language I hate the most thank to LLMs and specs-driven approach. everything feels so dumb right now in agentic coding.
looping blindlessly and aimlessly until it compiles then until the playwright server or whatever devtools shows that it somehow works. push the code, have a llm autoreview/autofix,push to prod, run a mythos (perfect name) to identify the bug that opus 4.7 create. loops on loops on loops of some kind of zombie processes running to a "goal" that everyone seems to mystify in talks to just hide the fact that we do nothing anymore. the bottleneck never was code. it was the gate that was keeping away the Elizabeth Holmes and SBF from software engineering and it just opened.
debesyla
I found that adding "philosophy" descriptions help guide the tooling. No specs, just general vibes what's the point, because we can't make everyone happy and it's not a goal of a good tool (I believe).
Technology, implementation may change, but general point of "why!?" stays.
hombre_fatal
Yeah, this has been my process for months now.
I might even start my own blog to write about things I've found.
1. Always get the agent to create a plan file (spec). Whatever prompt you were going to yolo into the agent, do it in Plan Mode first so it creates a plan file.
2. Get agents to iterate on the plan file until it's complete and thorough. You want some sort of "/review-plan <file>" skill. You extend it over time so that the review output is better and better. For example, every finding should come with a recommended fix.
3. Once the plan is final, have an agent implement it.
4. Check the plan in with the impl commit.
The plan is the unit of work really since it encodes intent. Impl derives from it, and bugs then become a desync from intent or intent that was omitted. It's a nicer plane to work at.
From this extends more things: PRs should be plan files, not code. Impl is trivial. The hard part is the plan. The old way of deriving intent from code sucked. Why even PR code when we haven't agreed on a plan/intent?
This process also makes me think about how code implementation is just a more specific specification about what the computer should do. A plan is a higher level specification. A one-line prompt into an LLM is the highest level specification. It's kinda weird to think about.
Finally, this is why I don't have to read code anymore. Over time, my human review of the code unearthed fewer and fewer issues and corrections to the point where it felt unnecessary. I only read code these days so I can impose my preferences on it and get a feel for the system, but one day you realize that you can accumulate your preferences (like, use TDD and sum types) in your static prompt/instructions. And you're back to watching this thing write amazing code, often better than what you would have written unless you have maximum time + attention + energy + focus no matter how uninteresting the task, which you don't.
wizzwizz4
> There would need to be automated pull-request checks verifying not only that tests pass but that code conforms to the spec.
As I understand, this is an unsolved problem.
show comments
testplzignore
> Product owners and engineers could initially collaborate on this spec and on test cases to enforce business rules.
LOL. I had to check if this was published on April 1st.
farmerbb
I legit can't tell if this article is satire, or not.
lesscode
Instead of accepting 20,000 lines of slop per PR (and never-ending combinatorial complexity), maybe we should aim to think about abstractions and how to steer LLMs to generate code similar to that of a skilled human developer. Then it could actually be a maintainable artifact by humans and LLMs alike.
Ecys
very true. and we already know and agree with this.
user experience/what the app actually does >>> actually implementing it.
elon musk said this a looong time ago. we move from layer 1 (coding, how do we implement this?) to layer 2 thinking (what should the code do? what do we code? should we implement this? (what to code to get the most money?))
> my first bet would be specifications and tests
You are missing another dimension how easy it would be to migrate if adding new feature hits a ceiling and LLM keeps breaking the system.
Imagine all tests are passing and code is confirming the spec, but everything is denormalized because LLM thought this was a nice idea at the beginning since no one mentioned that requirement in the spec. After a while you want to add a feature which requires normalized table and LLM keeps failing, but you also have no idea how this complex system works.
Don't forget that very very detailed spec is actually the code
> If I had to roll out such a development process today, I’d make a standardized Markdown specification the new unit of knowledge for the software project. Product owners and engineers could initially collaborate on this spec and on test cases to enforce business rules. Those should be checked into the project repositories along with the implementing code. There would need to be automated pull-request checks verifying not only that tests pass but that code conforms to the spec. This specification, and not the code that materializes it, is what the team would need to understand, review, and be held accountable for.
The constant urge I have today is for some sort of spec or simpler facts to be continuously verified at any point in the development process; Something agents would need to be aware of. I agree with the blog and think it's going to become a team sport to manage these requirements. I'm going to try this out by evolving my open source tool [1] (used to review specs and code) into a bit more of a collaborative & integrated plane for product specs/facts - https://plannotator.ai/workspaces/
[1] https://github.com/backnotprop/plannotator
> Rework is almost free
Is it? All the electricity and capital investment in computing hardware costs real money. Is this properly reflected in the fees that AI companies charge or is venture capital propping each one up in the hope that they will kill off the competition before they run out of (usually other people's) money?
The underlying mechanism is still the same: humans type and products come out.
So something which must be true if this author is right is that whatever the new language is—the thing people are typing into markdown—must be able to express the same rigor in less words than existing source code.
Otherwise the result is just legacy coding in a new programming language.
I wonder if with the speed of iteration with AI the industry will switch back to waterfall. Clear documentation first so the LLM can easily produce what's being asked with a round of testing before going back to the documentation stage and running it again. History does repeat itself.
The lesson I've learned from our new AI age is how little a large number of people who've worked in software development their entire careers understand software development.
I suppose all the money floating around AI helps dummify everything, as people glom on to narratives, regardless of merit, that might position them to partake.
What we actually have now is the ability to bang out decent quality code really fast and cheaply.
This is massive, a huge change, one which upends numerous assumptions about the business of software development.
...and it only leaves us to work through every other aspect of software development.
The approach this article advocates is to essentially pretend none of this exists. Simple, but will rarely produce anything of value.
This paragraph from the post gives you the gist of it:
> ...we need to remove humans-in-the-loop, reduce coordination, friction, bureaucracy, and gate-keeping. We need a virtually infinite supply of requirements, engineers acting as pseudo-product designers, owning entire streams of work, with the purview to make autonomous decisions. Rework is almost free so we shouldn’t make an effort to prevent incorrect work from happening.
As if the only reason we ever had POs or designers or business teams, or built consensus between multiple people, or communicated with others, or reviewed designs and code, or tested software, was because it took individual engineers too long to bang out decent code.
AI has just gotten people completely lost. Or I guess just made it apparent they were lost the whole time?
This could very well be a pattern that some teams evolve into. Specs are the new source -- they describe the architectural approach, as well as the business rules and user experience details. End to end tests are described here too. This all is what goes through PRs and review process, and the code becomes a build artifact.
the irony is that AI is making this exact problem worse. ppl are generating entire codebases now without reading any of it -- the flag might as well be the default. the skill thats actually becoming scarce isnt writing code, its reading code you didnt write and knowing if its correct.
Entertaining flag name!
React team seems to really have set a precedent with their "dangerouslySetInnerHTML" idea.
Or did they borrow it somewhere?
I'm just curious about that etymology, of course the idea is not universally helpful: for example, for dd CLI parameters, it would only make a mess.
But when there's a flag/option that really requires you to be vigilant and undesired the input and output and all edge cases, calling it "dangerous" is quite a feat!
markdown became the language I hate the most thank to LLMs and specs-driven approach. everything feels so dumb right now in agentic coding. looping blindlessly and aimlessly until it compiles then until the playwright server or whatever devtools shows that it somehow works. push the code, have a llm autoreview/autofix,push to prod, run a mythos (perfect name) to identify the bug that opus 4.7 create. loops on loops on loops of some kind of zombie processes running to a "goal" that everyone seems to mystify in talks to just hide the fact that we do nothing anymore. the bottleneck never was code. it was the gate that was keeping away the Elizabeth Holmes and SBF from software engineering and it just opened.
I found that adding "philosophy" descriptions help guide the tooling. No specs, just general vibes what's the point, because we can't make everyone happy and it's not a goal of a good tool (I believe).
Technology, implementation may change, but general point of "why!?" stays.
Yeah, this has been my process for months now.
I might even start my own blog to write about things I've found.
1. Always get the agent to create a plan file (spec). Whatever prompt you were going to yolo into the agent, do it in Plan Mode first so it creates a plan file.
2. Get agents to iterate on the plan file until it's complete and thorough. You want some sort of "/review-plan <file>" skill. You extend it over time so that the review output is better and better. For example, every finding should come with a recommended fix.
3. Once the plan is final, have an agent implement it.
4. Check the plan in with the impl commit.
The plan is the unit of work really since it encodes intent. Impl derives from it, and bugs then become a desync from intent or intent that was omitted. It's a nicer plane to work at.
From this extends more things: PRs should be plan files, not code. Impl is trivial. The hard part is the plan. The old way of deriving intent from code sucked. Why even PR code when we haven't agreed on a plan/intent?
This process also makes me think about how code implementation is just a more specific specification about what the computer should do. A plan is a higher level specification. A one-line prompt into an LLM is the highest level specification. It's kinda weird to think about.
Finally, this is why I don't have to read code anymore. Over time, my human review of the code unearthed fewer and fewer issues and corrections to the point where it felt unnecessary. I only read code these days so I can impose my preferences on it and get a feel for the system, but one day you realize that you can accumulate your preferences (like, use TDD and sum types) in your static prompt/instructions. And you're back to watching this thing write amazing code, often better than what you would have written unless you have maximum time + attention + energy + focus no matter how uninteresting the task, which you don't.
> There would need to be automated pull-request checks verifying not only that tests pass but that code conforms to the spec.
As I understand, this is an unsolved problem.
> Product owners and engineers could initially collaborate on this spec and on test cases to enforce business rules.
LOL. I had to check if this was published on April 1st.
I legit can't tell if this article is satire, or not.
Instead of accepting 20,000 lines of slop per PR (and never-ending combinatorial complexity), maybe we should aim to think about abstractions and how to steer LLMs to generate code similar to that of a skilled human developer. Then it could actually be a maintainable artifact by humans and LLMs alike.
very true. and we already know and agree with this.
user experience/what the app actually does >>> actually implementing it.
elon musk said this a looong time ago. we move from layer 1 (coding, how do we implement this?) to layer 2 thinking (what should the code do? what do we code? should we implement this? (what to code to get the most money?))
this is basic knowledge