Someone here on HN used the term "cloud terminal" for modern electronic devices, and I think that is a very fitting name for phones and tablets. They are definitely not computers because they do not actually give the user access to general purpose computing in the sense that the users can control exactly what computations the device is going to execute. They are just terminals whose production costs we cover but which are actually owned by the cloud providers.

Also: The internet is slowly turning into a handful of clouds, and it is only a matter of time before you cannot meaningfully host anything by yourself outside of these clouds because your cloud terminal will refuse to talk to it.

It's incredible that on the same device we can write pithy little comments, we can also play games, listen to music, read countless books, basically access the whole of the internet, and also empty out bank accounts. I'd wager most of those can be done on many people's devices in under a minute, with little more safeguard than a fingerprint.

To me this isn't some security flaw in android that allows users to do something. It's a fundamental flaw in having most of the world's population forced into using a device whose software, firmware, and hardware are gate kept by a handful of monopolistic companies. They want all your eggs in one basket, and they'll hold the basket for you.

For many people these things mediate a person's interaction with the world. That's not some super fantastic responsibility on Google's shoulders, but a humanist catastrophe caused in part by (and of course handsomely profitable for) Google.

Let me play out a scenario, imagine to use a Desktop Hardware like a complete built rig, you would need a specific OS like Windows 11 and you could not run Linux on it, just because it's a vendor lock-in.

Why is this acceptable for phones but would not for the case above?

I know a lot of people don't care, and that's ok, but we should root for an open choice for the users.

I think of my iPhone as a phone plus a mobile browser plus a biometric device. It has a lot of memory and a lot of compute power but that is just because all the crap sites and apps out there, unnecessary animations, etc. One could also claim that a phone is a mobile gaming device, although that is not my thing.

Biometrics is the feature that confers all the power to Apple and Google. All sorts of shady things can be done in the name of security and privacy.

The internet would be a much better place if browsing and biometrics were done in different devices.

This is the most important part:

>> Developers

Do not sign up. Don't join the program by signing up for the Android Developer Console and agreeing to their irrevocable Terms and Conditions. Don't verify your identity. Don't play ball.

Google's plan only works if developers comply. Don't.

Talk other developers and organizations out of signing up. Add the FreeDroidWarn library to your apps to warn users. Run a website? Add the countdown banner.

To be sincere, they were never truly ours. A proof of that is they were able to come up with this, and you don't have a way to reject it.

What we actually need are (open) alternatives, not to double down on Google's ecosystem and Google-controlled OS. We need to control the device we bought and be able to run whatever we wish on it. Just like we do on PCs.

I've resigned to the fact that I'll need to use two phones, one with locked down Android/iOS for banking applications and government services (those require strong bank ID around these parts), another with some kind of a Linux or unlocked Android for literally everything else. Oh well, such is life, most people don't care enough about this to pressure Google/Apple/banks/governments into yielding.

A big reason why a non-locked-down OS is absolutely vital to me is that sometimes I (reluctantly) have to travel to places where I need to install obscure VPN/proxy services to be able to access international internet. Most services present in app stores have been banned for years now, and the government sometimes even succeeds in making Apple/Google remove the more effective ones from the stores.

>Android's openness was never just a feature. It was the promise that distinguished it from iPhone. Millions chose Android for exactly that reason. Google is now revoking that promise unilaterally, on devices already in people's pockets, because they've decided they have enough market dominance and regulatory capture to get away with it.

This is why I've stuck with Android for the past 15 years.

From my point of view I don't see anything wrong with knowing a little bit more about the person behind the app I'm trusting to do my personal compute on my personal device. Personally I always think twice when I download apps from company's whose names I don't recognize. Same with PCs... do you really want to run that *.exe you downloaded from that cool site you found?

Changes like this will help keep developers honest and accountable. Yeah yeah bad apples will still find ways to screw us.

If you want to publish an app to a global scale ecosystem, is it really too much to ask to give some ID?

> People chose Android because it was different.

Source?

The android/iOS market shares vary a lot by country, with android dominating worldwide. North America is an exception with iOS in front (I think even more so in Canada). Maybe people _in the US_ choose android because it's different?

In Germany for example the android market share vs iOS is something like 60:40. India, something like 90:10.

Reasonable explanation: there's many more different price and feature ranges with android. I doubt the average Indian or German would say they bought an android "because it's more open", especially if they're in the great majority of people who don't work in tech.

> Starting September 2026, a silent update, nonconsensually pushed by Google, will block every Android app whose developer hasn't registered with Google, signed their contract, paid up, and handed over government ID.

This is false. Google will provide two other flows for app distribution that are different than this.

> Every app and every device, worldwide, with no opt-out.

Again, false. There is an opt-out called the "advanced flow".

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2026/03/android-de...

The author as well as commenters in this thread are claiming that people choose Android over iOS or vice versa

One could argue this is false dichotomy

These people are actually choosing a particular form factor with particular specifications that, more or less, only runs corporate mobile OS^1 instead of form factors that run non-corporate OS

1. Or some derivative of one that relies on the corporate distributor and replicates the tethering to a third party, e.g., "phoning home" to the OS distributor, "automatic updates" (remote code execution), etc.

There are other form factors of computers that can run non-corporate OS, where "phone home" and RCE code does not exist or, if necessary, any undesired code can be easily removed by concerned users

In sum, one could argue that with respect to control, privacy, etc. (a) choosing to use one corporate mobile OS over another is not a meaningful "choice" when compared with (b) choosing to use a non-corporate, open source, "compilable by the user" OS instead of a "locked down" corporate mobile OS

This choice can be made on a case-by-case basis depending on what computing problem the user is trying solve. With respect to anyone who seeks to use their "phone" as a general purpose computer to solve every computing problem, one could argue the "choice" of one corporate mobile OS over another is not meaningful with respect to user control, privacy, etc.

Instead "tech journalists", "tech blogs" and online commenters prefer to argue over which is the "better" corporate mobile OS. The truth is, with respect to control, privacy, etc., they all suck

"Tap the build number 7 times" ... "wait 24 hours"

Throw a pinch of salt over your left (wait, no ... right) shoulder. Spin around clockwise 3 times. Read the Rosary twice.

AHA! So, they are allowing users to keep doing what they want.

Will someone clarify my doubt ? The lineancy of allowing sideloading by means of developer options in settings that requires one time wait of 48hr. Will that be available to all android os or only newer. I was using android 10 on samsung model that already hit end of support by brand years ago. So it update is in developer options and its os level would'nt that require ota update but with end of support for system updates from samsung itself how it will be pushed

I don't see why megacorporations and governments are allowed to control the computer I carry around in my pocket, while I'm not.

I don't care, I run Graphene, and my phone is definitely mine. Most Android apps just work, and the ones that don't are the kind of malware I am happy to do without.

> "dismiss more scare screens"

This whole website is a scare screen. There's a lot that is not being said on this page, such as the advantages of the new system, and the motivations of the authors of this site.

There's a reasonable discussion to be had about trade-offs here, but this is entirely one sided, in somewhat bad faith in my personal opinion.

Russian here, a former Android and iPhone user. I had to switch to Graphene OS in full paranoid more due to our worsening situation regarding VPNs and phone searches.

After about a month of using Graphene OS, I'm not looking back – it's great. I'm not recommending it as a 100% solution for everyone, but it's definitely a very solid practical step towards keeping the phone yours:

1. Your phone will be able to operate as a basic phone (calls, SMS, web, photos / videos, location, Bluetooth, eSIM) without a Google account.

2. You will always be able to install an APK. This helps you install apps that are banned from Google Play Store in your country.

3. There's a duress PIN that lets you wipe the phone completely from any 'Enter PIN' screen. (I tried it, it's a bit messy, but it does wipe the phone and in the end you return to a blank Graphene OS installation – no need to reinstall.)

4. There's a setting that lets you disable any USB port functionality other than charging.

5. The permission system is amazing. If you are forced to install a state-mandated spy app (like the Max messenger in Russia), you can put it into a "permission jail" where the app assumes that it has access to the requested data but actually receives what you explicitly give it. For example, you can select individual photos and contacts to make available to the app – while the app will think that it has access to all contacts and photos. Bonus: the new Internet permission, which lets apps think that they are connected to the Internet while they are actually blocked from it.

6. You can have a separate profile for data and apps you don't want to expose. (There's also a Private Space for that, it's very convenient but it exposes installed apps via app search from the main space.)

7. There's an End Session function for a logged-in profile that stops it from running, wipes it from memory, and puts the data at rest.

8. You can have a separate VPN in each profile. This should help against situations where your local equivalent of Roskomnadzor sniffs out your VPN connection settings via state-mandated changes in apps operating in your jurisdiction, and bans that particular VPN later. Just make sure you install all spy apps under a profile with a disposable VPN that you aren't afraid to lose.

9. Each profile (and the Private Space too, because technically it is a special kind of Profile) can have a separate Google account. For example, one profile can have a Russian Google account (for banking and state apps), while another profile can have an Armeninan Google account (for things that are banned in Russia, like Spotify and Kindle.) However, to arrange this, you have to physically be in the desired country – Google doesn't let you change the account country without being there.

To sum up – if you are concerned about this situation, buy Pixel 10 (excellent hardware btw.), install Graphene OS (very easy, their web installer is great), and try using it for a while.

This change has served me well! I have been a Mac OS X users for years who used an android phone. As soon as google announced their impending walled garden status, I went out and bought into the ios eco system. I have really been enjoying my iphone, ipad, and apple watch.

You see, the only value that Android really offered me was the ability to run my own code on my own device. Since they are taking that away that just makes it a crappier shadow of the vastly superior apple experience. And, as it turns out, ios is less restrictive than it was 18 years ago when I left them for Android!

This keeps coming up and I just want to point out that it's the result of one judge using the book rather than their brain to make a ruling.

Google asked (the appeals judge) why Apple was not a monopoly with the App store. The judge told Google it was because they cannot be anti-competitive if they have no competitors.

Well, here we are.

You know, I'm fine with this (just as long as the opt-in is one-time, not for every install). A device maker needs to balance the interests of many different groups, including nontechnical users subject to scams, and it's pretty self-centered to get self-righteously outraged when things get a little harder for power users, when those changes may save the butt of a lot of other people.

The only thing that gives me pause is this:

> Worse: this flow runs entirely through Google Play Services, not the Android OS. Google can change it, tighten it, or kill it at any time, with no OS update required and no consent needed. And as of today, it hasn't shipped in any beta, preview, or canary build. It exists only as a blog post and some mockups.

It is going to sound odd, but.. why do we need a phone number at all ( I know why it is so entrenched -- I am asking about need )? Because, if phone number is not needed, we can move to bypass the annoying effective duopoly.

So wait, does this mean that Google will forcefully uninstall the apps I currently have installed?! or disable? will the apps work again once I went through the 24h process?

Well, what about PlayStation, etc? Yes it has a PC inside. But, you own it with exceptions. A terminal for games. Similar to phones now. Some advantages and disadvantages here. Anyway, they Own it, they Built it and they have Their rules.

We'd have to make Linux on mobile a viable option.

On my Android phone's home screen I have 23 apps, 11 of them are my own. If Android prevents me from installing my own apps I will switch to something else.

Thank you for sharing this. It is sad that Google has by now destroyed every reason I wanted to run Android. Bye-bye.

Can't even run F-Droid any more? That's the only source of apps I use.

The fact that many Android bootloaders are not allowed to be unlocked by users means, by definition, these devices were never yours to begin with. It is not Google taking away your ability to use your sideloaded apps on your device because true, unlimited device freedom was never yours to begin with.

This is a wild misrepresentation of the situation. Saying there is no opt-out is just false, they even provide the information on how users can opt-out. The "mandatory 24 hour cooling-off period" is also misleading, it's easy to bypass the cooling-off period with ADB.

My position regarding devices is that only 2 out of 3 should be satisfied:

1. Used as a proof of identity (for banks, govt services, etc.)

2. Is distributed to laypeople who have more pressing concerns in their lives than security.

3. Is an open platform where you can download apps arbitrarily from the Internet that can read your data and exfiltrate them to a malicious actor.

The mainstream today chooses 1&2. Novelty, underpowered devices choose 2&3. Hobbyists have option 3 (and those who like to live dangerously 1&3) with some inconvenience. You can still run GrapheneOS... and the mainstream apps that expect your device to be a proof of your identity won't work... and I find that quite reasonable.

Cannot wait for linux phones to be ready... When I switch my current phone I'll check out how the Jolla status is

This is certainly bad news, but at least an escape hatch exists (the "advanced flow") and it appears to be a one-time pain in the ass. If that changes, I hope GrapheneOS and friends[1] can get Google Pay or some alternative working so I can comfortably jump ship, as I rely pretty heavily on the ability to pay with my phone.

[1] https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

This is reason I don't use ios. I will be happy to use a new OS forked from android at this point of time. Any suggestions? I don't care where it originates from.

Android's original openness did attract users, but the flood of poorly-made apps also created real fraud and crime risks. Those of us on HN have high security standards, but for older users, that old policy created genuine security vulnerabilities. Just observing my own family members.

Sounds like 2027 will be the year of the Linux phone. Thanks for the support Google.

This should be #1 in HN

Well, that would be a very polite way for a mugger to describe his plan.

In all seriousness, Apple doesn’t even make you submit an ID to publish on the App Store.

I think it's time to visit an Apple Store and try out the Apple ecosystem. I haven't used an Apple device in a long time.

If an update could silently block any app from working then your phone was never yours to begin with. Even if they never implement the update, the potential power means they own your phone.

We lost control of our hardware a long long time ago.

Really good timing for Jolla to produce a new phone :)

I still have fond memories of my 2013 Jolla, and I'm hoping that the 2026 Jolla will be just as lovingly crafted. Most importantly, Jolla is a company that seems to care about me, the user, whereas Apple and Google constantly treat me like a peasant that needs to be governed.

My Starlink receiver already isn’t mine. It’s locked to one account.

I can’t give it to someone else to use without contacting the company and registering it.

I can’t donate it to goodwill and have someone else use it.

If someone can push nonconsensual updates to your device then you never owned it in the first place.

Vote with everything you have/can. Money, attitude, consumption, political connections. Make these greedy (beep) regret it. Users and developers stop using Play store.

I've found that releasing and maintaining production Android apps has become more difficult in the last decade as compared to iOS which (surprisingly) has improved slightly.

Google Play removed a perfectly functional NFC utility app we released after a year of no updates (despite the fact that it didn't require any to work on the latest Android version at the time). By contrast, the App Store doesn't care as long as we continue to pay the annual developer fee.

We opted to open source the app and let users sideload the app as an alternative; now that will be far more difficult as we are no longer "verified" Google Play developers.

Really unfortunate, glad I'm not an Android user myself.

My phone has not been "mine" for a decade and a half now, and the ability to install a self signed.apk has very little to do with this.

I don't understand, there was all this regulation for force apple to allow alternative app stores, and now google are pulling this move?

How is this not the same walled garden approach apple was forced to change?

I have tons of apps I installed (mostly from Play Store) since like 2012, and that were grandfathered in through Samsung Switch from phone to phone as I replaced them with one another. A lot of data in them, too. Will they, and the data, just ... disappear?! When exactly do I have to do the 24 hour song and dance to prevent that? All of this sounds too bad to be true, honestly.

GrapheneOS and PostmarketOS deserve more visibility

Is anyone considering a fork of Android that would not have this, um, "feature"?

Okay, so buy a new phone I guess that is yours?

It will end up badly for them in EU

I imagine most of us here will look elsewhere when we next upgrade. But are those numbers large enough to form a viable alternative?

There is a negative network effect: The opt-out is so complex and time-consuming that it will deter almost all users (even if some on HN say they will do it).

With so few users, many fewer developers will release apps that don't comply with Google's requirements. Then the value of opting out will decline significantly, which will reduce the number of people doing it, which will reduce the number of apps released ...

How do corporate users distribute custom apps on iPhones? Must they distribute them via Apple's store or is there some corporate mode, maybe involving X.509 certs and device management, that enables large-scale professional users to sideload?

This feels like something where the EU Commission should step in. This is directly counter to the Digital Markets Act, it's Google abusing its gatekeeper position.

I've been planning my move from Google for a while but this is getting me to pull the trigger. GrapheneOS, Kagi and Fastmail it is. I'll keep the gmail account open for mail forwarding but that's about it.

Does this make Android the same as iOS now, in terms of how locked down it is?

Phone is yours. Software it runs not.

So what you're saying is that I have about 3 months to switch to Graphene? Really though, is this not the very definition of monopolistic behavior? Did they not just lose a lawsuit over this?

Some more discussions:

2 weeks ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47778274

February https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47139765

October https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45742488

Yes, but not because of those changes in the GMS stock OS, but because the ability to unlock the bootloader (and install the OS you can actually control) is being increasingly limited.

Stock GMS Android was never yours, you only had access to basic permissions, privileged/signature permissions were only accessible to Google/vendors anyway.

So... just like the App Store on iOS?

The level of panic here feels totally out of proportion. While these restrictions are a sad reminder of where personal computing is headed, the shift toward appliances over computers isn’t a new trend at all.

What’s more frustrating is the "your android phone will stop being yours" narrative. Where is that supposed to lead the reader? Moving to iOS to escape restrictions is a total contradiction, as the situation there isn't even comparable. The people who actually care - the F-Droid users and independent developers - are already used to jumping through hurdles and bypassing "install anyway" warnings. They won't be deterred, and new users will learn.

Honestly, you have to wonder if the goal of these dramatic campaigns is just to scare ignorant users into the Apple ecosystem or maybe to prop up emerging Linux phones.

But has anyone actually tried a mainstream Linux phone that isn't a nightmare to use? Compare that experience to the dozens of Android models that work perfectly with LineageOS or other variants. Those are 100% daily drivers with the power, cameras, and battery life fully working. Instead of helpful criticism, these headlines feel like they’re just herding people away from the only practical "open" hardware we actually have.

I predict this same restriction for Windows 12.

Buying a jolla phone now!

This is goggle's version of windoze 11

There's never been a better time to switch to a linux phone...

I love that it's so easy to tell that this was built with Claude.

Algorithmically removing words from a headline with confidence that what comes out will be better is the precise intersection of stupid and arrogant that defines the modern tech industry.

Better to share how to install apps and alternative app stores instead of fearmongering around very reasonable security measures.

The opt out is graphene os yeah?

Mobile ecosystem is crap as a dev, crap as a user.

vaguely curious how this is going to affect Amazon's FireOS

which is basically android with their own app store layer

FireToolBox has gotten really powerful with workarounds

especially with the new Shizuku pseudo-root via adb

WHERE DO I SEND MY MONEY?

This is the question this website should be answering. Signing petitions is all well and good, but I want to vote with my wallet.

WHERE DO I SEND MY MONEY???

One thing I will do in the future is buy a nifty Motorola / GrapheneOS collab phone, but I can't do that yet. So for now: WHERE DO I SEND MY MONEY?

It is literally amazing to me that people aren't giving this as an option on such social coordination sites. Who is willing and able to sue Google over this? Who is actually doing it?

*WHERE DO I SEND MY MONEY*

I have to admit, in ancient times when the googleists could point schadenfreude at the appleists and brag about how open Android was compared to iOS, I was a bit envious. Now that terminal enshittification has infected Android too, I'm not feeling schadenfreude in turn. It's a sad day all around.

On one hand, having a free for all is very good, especially for developers, and for programmability of our devices as such. Screw iPads.

On the other hand, malware which coaxes normies into installing unverified apks, is an undeniable fact of life. It's nice to be pontificating as a power user who has never been phished or whose devices never became botnet zombies in their life.

On yet another hand, higher-end malware (made by those who can afford the store fees) is there on the freaking play store and app store, so, I guess, shrug

Another downside of this, besides what’s mentioned, is people becoming insensitive about security, when they get to blindly do that process to install legitimate apps multiple times, it will be easier to trick them to install malicious ones, so you are not improving security at all.

Isnt the title a bit dramatic? I remember reading you can still install apps but you just need to click a few buttons.

Since forever.

The fixed phones belonged to the phone company and were only rented under contract.

Most prepaid and contract mobile phones were locked to the operator and we even had to pay extra to unblock them.

App stores were gated through operators, and required devkits for some of them.

Ah, and none of them got updates, if they did, usually required additional software to install them.

Our phones stopped being ours ever since we accepted phones with locked bootloaders. I hope Android and iOS both disappear. Trading freedom for security has resulted in what we knew would happen.

Ugh such overreaction. ADB is still a thing. Apple doesn't even have an official command like tool where you can just push an IPA to your phone. Goodness.

The real mystery is why anyone remotely aware of the Free Software movement would have ever been duped into advocating for handheld computers so hostile to their own goals.