> With this approach, they have shown a reduction in CRL data from a list of all enrolled and unexpired certificate serial numbers from 6.7G to a filter of just 1.3 MB.
It actually gets even better: Mozilla's CRLite deltas with generation on a 6-hour interval are only about 60kB! Even with 10 billion internet devices fetching every 6 hours you're looking at a mere 222Gbps of bandwidth: a lot, but plenty of tech companies do more.
> At this point, why not just use DANE (RFC 6698), store the public keys in the DNS, rely on DNSSEC to provide the necessary authenticity, and use DNS TTL settings to control the cached lifetime of the public key? With a combination of DNSSEC Chain Extensions and DNSSEC stapling, it is possible to perform a security association handshake by having the server provide the client with (...)
Yeah, until an attacker gets access to DNS, stores a record with a TTL of 1 year, and staples that - of course after poisoning the caches of major DNS resolvers with the address of the attacker's server.
show comments
thayne
> At this point, why not just use DANE
Interests of the existing PKI industry may be the source of some friction, but the bigger issue is that DANE depends on DNSSEC, which is not widely deployed, and sometimes actively avoided due to its complexity and ease of breaking you site.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if DANE, or something similar caught on, but I don't think it is practical until something changes to make DNSSEC (or equivalent) common.
show comments
bblb
DNS and PKI. Two of the most centralized services in the Internet. Take over both of them, and you have the whole net under your command.
show comments
lmm
Was this AI-generated? It seems to keep circling around the same points and have some major misunderstandings.
> If that is the case, why should the server convey the certificate and the OCSP status to the client and defer to the client on the decision not to proceed with the TLS connection? Why shouldn’t the server simply terminate the TLS connection immediately itself?
Why does it matter? You're talking about a scenario that should essentially never happen, who cares about slightly suboptimal performance at that point?
> CRLs only really work efficiently when nobody revokes certificates.
Revocation is an emergency measure, not a routine one. That's ok.
> At this point, why not just use DANE (RFC 6698), store the public keys in the DNS, rely on DNSSEC to provide the necessary authenticity, and use DNS TTL settings to control the cached lifetime of the public key?
Because DNS' multilayered caching makes it notoriously impossible to operate safely or debug. Most large outages already originate in DNS issues; putting the crypto in that layer would redouble it.
> With this approach, they have shown a reduction in CRL data from a list of all enrolled and unexpired certificate serial numbers from 6.7G to a filter of just 1.3 MB.
It actually gets even better: Mozilla's CRLite deltas with generation on a 6-hour interval are only about 60kB! Even with 10 billion internet devices fetching every 6 hours you're looking at a mere 222Gbps of bandwidth: a lot, but plenty of tech companies do more.
> At this point, why not just use DANE (RFC 6698), store the public keys in the DNS, rely on DNSSEC to provide the necessary authenticity, and use DNS TTL settings to control the cached lifetime of the public key? With a combination of DNSSEC Chain Extensions and DNSSEC stapling, it is possible to perform a security association handshake by having the server provide the client with (...)
Yeah, until an attacker gets access to DNS, stores a record with a TTL of 1 year, and staples that - of course after poisoning the caches of major DNS resolvers with the address of the attacker's server.
> At this point, why not just use DANE
Interests of the existing PKI industry may be the source of some friction, but the bigger issue is that DANE depends on DNSSEC, which is not widely deployed, and sometimes actively avoided due to its complexity and ease of breaking you site.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if DANE, or something similar caught on, but I don't think it is practical until something changes to make DNSSEC (or equivalent) common.
DNS and PKI. Two of the most centralized services in the Internet. Take over both of them, and you have the whole net under your command.
Was this AI-generated? It seems to keep circling around the same points and have some major misunderstandings.
> If that is the case, why should the server convey the certificate and the OCSP status to the client and defer to the client on the decision not to proceed with the TLS connection? Why shouldn’t the server simply terminate the TLS connection immediately itself?
Why does it matter? You're talking about a scenario that should essentially never happen, who cares about slightly suboptimal performance at that point?
> CRLs only really work efficiently when nobody revokes certificates.
Revocation is an emergency measure, not a routine one. That's ok.
> At this point, why not just use DANE (RFC 6698), store the public keys in the DNS, rely on DNSSEC to provide the necessary authenticity, and use DNS TTL settings to control the cached lifetime of the public key?
Because DNS' multilayered caching makes it notoriously impossible to operate safely or debug. Most large outages already originate in DNS issues; putting the crypto in that layer would redouble it.