It's so cool that every individual upgrade they did here can be hot-swapped back to the older designs. That's a huge extra lift that they didn't have to do.
To be specific: There's a new lower chassis, and a new chassis top with haptic touchpad. On my older framework I could buy just the chassis top to get the new touchpad. Crazy that they could make that work.
I also just really admire the CEO for doing these semi-scripted public presentations nerding out over the new devices and shouting out specific team members who did the designs. Really hope the company is doing well.
I saw the announcement video and I'm so relieved to hear actual honest language!
- Actually naming your inspiration as Apple
- Saying that thanks to machined body, the keyboard is actually slightly better. No overstatement, just an honest detail
- No: "This is our best laptop yet" (As if managing to not making it worse is something to be proud of)
- To the point, fast paced, clear communication
- Honestly stating that you're working hard on getting as good as "the gold standard, which of course is Apples track pad" and that you think you'll get there soon
- Clearly stating that the new memory standard is not magically your own invention somehow even though you're the first to use it
- Clearly stating the actual numbers of the battery in Wh and density AND also how many video minutes you get
- Clearly stating, not hiding but also not overstating that you started the company for the purpose of upgradeability
- Proving what you mean with examples before emphasising that "we really mean it when we say we have redesigned the computer from the ground up" (While absolutely fantastically letting the new motherboards upgrade last generation chassis!)
Result: I placed a pre-order, and kind of felt sad for this honest and clear language to apparently be rare.
kelnos
As soon as I saw the email announcement for the 13 Pro, my face fell. My assumption was that this was a brand new, incompatible chassis, and that my current 13 would be obsolete, and if I want to go further, I'd have to buy a whole new chassis in one go. Essentially a full laptop replacement, completely betraying the entire point.
And then I click through and see the compatibility table and my jaw drops. Amazing! Yes, it's a new chassis, but all the parts that matter will fit into my old chassis. And if I want to upgrade the chassis, I can even do that piece by piece as well, not all at once.
I'm also glad to see another Intel mainboard, and one with the new, actually-powerful iGPUs. A part of me has considered over time defecting to AMD, but I'm still just more comfortable with Intel, for some reason that probably isn't rational. My one concern is that their CPU options top out at 4 performance cores; the i7-1370P I have right now has 6. But I know these days it's hard to reason about real-world performance just by core count, especially with the different flavors of cores we have now.
Another worry: the thermals of the original 13 chassis have never been great, and I'm concerned that the new mainboard will throttle a bunch under load when installed in the old chassis.
At any rate, I may not upgrade this year, given RAM prices. I have 64GB of DDR4 in my current laptop, and replacing that with the same amount of LPCAMM2 LPDDR5X is probably more expensive than the rest of the laptop itself.
But maybe over the next few years I'll ship-of-theseus myself into a new laptop.
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pojntfx
I'm really looking forward to having this as the go-to laptop to recommend to devs again. The original Framework chassis was really showing it's age next to e.g. a MacBook Pro or the new XPS 14.
Having mainline Linux on a system with 24h+ battery life in a 13" case is pretty damn impressive.
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nrp
I’m happy to answer questions folks have around the product (later today).
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bloq66
As I love the idea of modular and repairable laptop, I've got some issues with it. I have Framework 13 AMD with Fedora (as Arch was almost unusable on it for me).
Connecting external hardware to it, especially dock stations and monitors - which work flawlessly with another laptops - sometimes works, sometimes not...
brson
I'll take this opportunity to report on my Framework Laptop 13 experience. I've had it for over a year.
The case is warped in multiple places. One USB C module doesn't accept a power charge reliably. It can overheat and shutdown. If the case flexes a little the trackpad stops responding - it needs to be on a flat surface. Power brick died.
On the plus side, my partner had one and when she threw it away she gave me her parts and I was able to swap some out. That was cool.
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kingsleyopara
I really want to love this thing but at least in the UK, matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer.
MacBook Pro 14: £2199 (M5 Pro, 24GB, 1TB, no adapter) - added as I think it’s an even better deal
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advirol
What I miss is a keyboard with dedicated keys for Home, End, Insert, Delete, PageUp, and PageDown. Sadly, this is still something only ThinkPads get right.
I really would like to give other laptops a chance but the substandard keyboards of most laptops are always holding me back.
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rldjbpin
the chassis upgrade is welcome and it is nice to see the company grow enough to start creating custom hardware, and supporting standards that should keep things modular without sacrifice.
at the same time, there is a decent level of risk with using "new" standards before the industry catches up. lpcamm2 is great and should allow faster memory while "upgradable". the issue is with only having one slot which forces you to replace memory instead of adding to it. this is working with the assumption of having a single slot, which i am happy to be proven wrong on.
the current timing is a shame but at least when one needs to shell out so much money after all, might as well get better performance and hardware along with it.
Sephr
My main gripes:
- There's zero mention of the display technology, just "2.8K Touchscreen Display"
- The optional HDMI ("3rd Gen") adapter is only 4K 60hz, when the host chip has integrated Thunderbolt 4 which can output 4K 240Hz
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vbezhenar
This page is confusing and maybe even misleading. They write "Linux first". Few paragraphs later they write: 20 hours, Netflix 4K streaming, 250nit brightness, 30% volume, Windows 11. Why didn't they stream Neflix on Ubuntu they ship with?
Overall it looks awesome. I just bought Thinkpad T14s upgrading from the same model of older generation, I wish Framework would expand its sales coverage, probably would buy it without second thought if it was available in my country without overseas shipping and customs tax hurdles.
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archon810
Is there an option for a keyboard with dedicated PgUp/PgDn/Home/End/Insert/Delete keys? I looked at a bunch of designs and didn't find any. If this is a developer-focused laptop, how can the keyboard be so developer-unfriendly? This is why I keep getting Lenovo laptops, they don't compromise on these keys.
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rglover
Has anyone made the jump from a Mac to Framework as a daily driver? This is the first model to get my attention as a possible candidate for a full switch to Linux.
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hecifato
I’ve been a MacBook guy for almost a decade now, but I’ve been watching Framework since their first announcement. This is the most appealing Framework device I’ve seen.
The new display, battery life, the new Intel chips, and LPCAM2 memory all look great. I love my M1 MBP but Apple’s software quality has been rough the past year especially. I think this is also the first time the Framework 13 has officially supported Thunderbolt? Depending on how macOS 27 turns out I may seriously consider the 13 Pro as my next laptop. I’d slap Fedora Workstation on it and call it a day.
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MarsIronPI
Man, I want to get a Framework, but I'm held back by the lack of trackpoint. Yes, I know it's not going to happen officially, but I just can't see myself using a laptop without one. So, until someone figures out some mod or 3rd-party part I'm sticking with Thinkpads.
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jasonjmcghee
Out of sheer curiosity, why do apple devices have astronomically longer battery life when sleeping? (How is the sleep so efficient?)
I was busy with work and didn't touch my personal laptop for a few weeks and it still had well over half the battery.
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sosodev
TIL LPCAMM2 exists. What an awesome solution to allow memory replacements while meeting all of the other requirements for laptops.
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iamcalledrob
I really wish this had a 4K display option. As someone who dislikes fractional scaling.
I'm clinging on to my older Thinkpad X1 because the 4K display is so good.
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DanHulton
Oh my god, yet _another_ "developer-focused" laptop with full-sized left/right arrow keys, which are an absolutely miserable experience to actually use.
How is it that Apple is the only company these days() that consistently gets this right?
( Yes, I know they used full-sized keys for a while, I moaned and cursed them at the time as well.)
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pveierland
I'm amazed looking at the upgrade kit. It's everything you need to go from the old 13" to the Pro; including chassis, display, battery, keyboard etc - listed at $255. That's an instant buy from me.
Everything about this is what I've been looking for in a Linux laptop. (Also, how refreshing is it to not have to think hard about how much RAM you might need over the next few years because you know you can always upgrade it later?)
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babylon5
Nice upgrades, but no mention of ECC RAM, the single thing that I wanted from an upgrade for a decade? Why do chip makers refuse to take our money? :-P
The whole page advertises how well this runs Linux, but then…
> The side-firing speakers are tuned with Dolby Atmos® to deliver clear, balanced audio on Windows
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niteshpant
These are cool laptops. But, after getting a decent config (32gb ram, 1tb ssd, 7 series chip), the price is ~$2300. At that point, a MacBook Pro seems like a better choice. I'd not want to develop on anything less than that config. The selling point seems to be the Linux + Framework brand + highly customizable machine you can actually own
I've always wondered if these laptops can scale beyond the enthusiast group. If so, how?
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manuhabitela
Man, this looks really, really impressive. It basically solves every issue we could find to the framework 13. Can't wait for the reviews.
Accepting the prices of the ram shortage era is still painful, but even with the 64gb option, here in France it's still a great deal compared to similarly configured premium thinkpads or macbook pros.
"This product can only be used with both the Framework Laptop 13 Pro Bottom Cover and Framework Laptop 13 Pro Input Cover."
I applaud that the mainboard and keyboard are backwards compatible, but I don't think the pro is quite as backwards compatible as some are thinking
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maximzxc
Why no trackpoint support yet? I saw it being requested a lot of times already. Really tired of using ThinkPads, would love to change to anything else, but trackpoint is the only thing that keeps me from switching.
dalmo3
Ohh they finally ship to New Zealand. It's a shame they wouldn't last year, and I ended up with a Lenovo :/
sandreas
Here is a more explanatory video what's new and how it looks.
I really wish they'd do a tablet / MS Surface alternative. After the Laptop 12 the experience should be there. The demand is real and the current landscape looks dire. Alone the people who say they'd love an iPad Pro with a real OS on it.
chrysoprace
I'll be excited to buy one of these (or the newer iteration) if component prices ever return to pre-2025 levels. AUD$800 for 32GB RAM is insanity (which is of course not within their control, but my purchasing impulses are - at least for now).
pxc
Is Framework open to an OLED panel option in the future? I have an eye disease that makes extremely high contrast and extremely deep blacks very helpful to me, since it means I can get good contrast with less total light. I can still read LCD displays well enough, but as my eyes worsen, that may not be true.
Since Framework has a great track record with display upgradability, just an indication that there is serious interest in OLED options in the future would be enough to sell me.
So if anyone at Framework is reading this: is there any opposition inside framework to OLED? Any fundamental constraints that make OLED panels unlikely for the next several years?
jeremy8883
Finally a haptic trackpad. Unfortunately not having one was a dealbreaker when purchasing my laptop last year, but next upgrade I'll be able to consider them again.
amai
Why do I need a touchscreen and Dolby Atmos as developer?
daemin
Part of me was hoping there would be some sort of official arm mainboard announced, I know there's the third party version but they don't seem to sell the main board only.
awongh
How is ubuntu support for touchscreens these days?
How does it compare to an ipad in terms of fidelity / responsiveness, and for native-feeling integration with ubuntu?
I am, naturally, a bit skeptical that touchscreen UI would be any good in linux.
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dehugger
A laptop without a unified memory model is categorically incapable of being the "ultimate developer laptop". Framework already have Strix Halo machines, I don't know why they felt the need to hamstring this thing with Intel.
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jpeeler
Wish it supported coreboot. It seems hard to find modern hardware that does.
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the_arun
Macbook Pro 14" with M5, 32GB RAM, 1TB HDD = $2,099.00
The unevenly sized arrow keys still prevent me from buying any of it.
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turowicz
You can get a new Asus P16 ProArt with 5070 for exact same price (AI 370, 2TB drive, 64GB RAM)
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jmakov
No Ryzen options? Also no 1600nits display for working outside. Battery and display brightness are the only reasons I'm sticking with Macbook Pro.Sad it's not a priority for any other manufacturer. Because that's all you need, quality display, battery and remote access.
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WanderPanda
I would be really interested in a podcast with the CEO where he goes a bit into the trade-offs of backwards and forwards compatibility. I can not imagine that their planning was so immaculate that there aren't any regressions that a clean slate design could have cleaned up. Nevertheless, amazing job for putting this together it looks like a phenomenal product!
spankibalt
Cool, though I'd prefer a Framework 12 Pro (convertible, or even a detachable) with a Wacom EMR digitizer.
Retr0id
Depending on how good that haptic trackpad is, this could be a real Macbook Pro competitor. 32GB of RAM on my M1 Pro is starting to feel a bit cramped.
mikkelam
I've been super happy with my Framework desktop. And since getting that I've been craving replacing my MacBook... This looks super attractive
wiseowise
If Framework offered MacOS keyboard layout I’d switch without a thought.
> Watch a Framework Laptop 13 Pro battery go from 100% to 0%. Live.
Live stream is not available.
LandenLove
It's unfortunate that I am unable to access these new products because Framework does not ship to Japan. I have an original Framework 13 that's CPU fan has been making death noises. There is also a broken screw mount in the base.
I didn't do shipment forwarding. I just bought the product and later moved to Japan. Also, Framework supposedly blocks shipment forwarding.
It's odd, because I remember them advertising a Japanese keyboard layout in the past. They must not see a large enough market to justify the costs.
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asimovDev
this looks exciting. We are allowed to choose between Windows, macOS and Linu at my job so I might consider this when we are due for an upgrade in a year or 2. Feels wrong to discard our M2 Pro machines when they are perfectly capable of my relatively minuscule workloads at the moment, it only slowed down once when I had a memory leak in Safari from a AWS tab
ua709
The expansion card system seems like something I would actually really like, especially as a hardware engineer. But the more I thought about it I couldn't really think of any compelling expansion cards that were worth the effort. So I figured I would look at what was in their store to see what other people thought up, and there isn't really any 3rd party store that I could find.
According to it there are more 3rd party main boards than expansion cards. I kinda get it, but wow. End of an era I guess.
ciaranmca
Don’t think I have ever came across a queue to buy a laptop before but congrats to the framework team.
sudo_cowsay
This fixes a lot of things that had made me hesitant to buy Framework before.
whatever1
Please make a standalone case with a usb port for the keyboard trackpad! I would love to have it for when I connect the laptop to an external monitor. I hate the mouse, but I love the trackpad right under the keyboard.
There is no such product in the market.
asadm
I wish it was easy to port Asahi Linux to macbook neo. That would be insane!
bodge5000
Just wish they'd give the FW16 the same treatment, at least in terms of the build. You shouldn't choose a laptop based on looks but thats hitting exactly what I want, minus the 16" screen
ericfrederich
Glad they got a touchscreen but would really like to see a convertible/2-in-1
etothet
I really like what Framwork has been doing, but I have an honest question: is 20 hours of Netflix 4k streaming at 250nit and 30% volume a spec to show off? I genuinely don't know.
I thought most modern laptops have dedicated video decode hardware that is fairly easy on battery. At only 250nit though...that seems dim by today's standards. I'm happy to be wrong though!
andrelaszlo
It's beautiful. Just got a Framework 13 a few months ago, so I can't justify buying a pro just to get it in black... right?
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z3ugma
It doesn't come with any RAM? You have to add $140 for 8GB or "bring your own"...so the list price does not represent a working computer?
canada_dry
Without a mockup of what all the customizable parts will look like... it's hard to commit to a build.
alsetmusic
I continue to admire Framework from afar. If I were to switch from MacOS to Linux, they'd be at the top of my list when shopping.
pigeons
Trackpoint/nipple?
sharms
This is great - a Macbook Pro for Linux users, made of CNC milled aluminum, haptic trackpad, and 20+ hours of 4k video playback under Linux
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Rooster61
Is there a side by side comparison for their products anywhere? I'd like to compare this to the current 16 specs. And are they planning a "Pro" version of the 16?
I don't have plans to buy a laptop in the near future, but its nice to have this as an option. I like the idea of a bespoke Linux machine I could use.
darkwater
When my hard plastic chassis T470 from 2016 dies and cannot be repaired, I will for sure buy a Framework.
ndom91
Anyone know much about the new top of the line Intel vs AMD CPU options? Which is more power efficient? Powerful?
Too bad there's no second m2 slot for extra disk and no 5G WWAN support.
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nhumrich
Personally, I don't understand aluminum chassis. Sure, it feels more premium, but it comes with quite a bit more weight than plastic, and I much prefer less weight over "feel" when it comes to a laptop.
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LorenDB
I'm happy to see they finally added a touchscreen. This will probably be my next laptop.
landsman
I have to buy it. This company deserve a support.
nightski
Beautiful laptop and then they stick a tiny 13" screen on there, I don't get it. 14" is the perfect size. Guess it just isn't the one for me.
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philistine
Hey let's make a very versatile laptop with tons of options for consumers, and let's not offer the other Standard Canadian French keyboard, let's just have the old one Windows forces on people.
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kapilvt
Assuming the Qualcomm ARM lawsuits are what’s preventing the AArch64 debut…
Elixir6419
I would love to go framework and the specs here look pretty awesome but 5g modem is a must have for me and they dont really have an option for that. I am guessing due to the antennas.
giancarlostoro
I wonder if they'll ever make a "Toughbook" type of laptop. Those things are very interesting, since you can shove drives in and out of them and it matches the spirit of what this is.
commandersaki
Blah why do they insist on those full height arrow keys.
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koalaman
I'm struggling to understand if this supports usb-c based thunderbolt
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NewJazz
LPCAMM2 looks interesting. How much is that RAM though :'(
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altern8
Looks awesome, but any developer laptop should have an inverted-T layout for arrows.
Those might look cool, but they're a huge pain to use.
fwipsy
Framework is cool, but Lenovo and Dell have been selling repairable enterprise laptops with Linux support for years. Some Precision/XPS laptops even have replaceable graphics cards.* It feels like they don't get nearly as much attention.
* Some will even work with graphics cards from newer laptops using the same chassis; for example, the Precision 7530 (8th gen Intel + Pascal GPUs) can be upgraded with Precision 7540 (Turing) GPUs. This isn't officially supported, though, and may not apply to later models.
outlore
Can this drive a Studio Display XDR at 120 Hz? I wonder if anyone else is thinking about this and how to figure out compatibility.
koiueo
I said it before, I'll say it again: I won't consider Framework until they ditch they're crippled cursor block or offer trackpoint.
I'll buy one on the day of release if they offer both options (my most recent¹ Lenovo is long overdue for replacement)
¹ I don't think I'll ever sell my X220, any I regret selling my X270. Everything after that was a disappointment.
Melatonic
Damn this is cool !!
nl
Strix Halo version available for pre-order!
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ciupicri
> with excellent Linux support
So can we finally update the firmware for the Sandisk SN7100 and 850X SSDs under Linux? Last time I've checked you couldn't even download the firmware for WD 850X using a plain browser. You had to use their "special" Windows software.
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Barbing
Congratulations! Incredible!
rkagerer
Thoughts on the chassis being all aluminum, vs. a magnesium alloy?
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nreece
I would have liked the option of non-touch display, and although the display is variable rate (30-120Hz) it's not going to be as optimal as the 1-120Hz panel in the Dell XPS 14 getting it to 40+ hours (https://x.com/dhh/status/2040139744445673938).
LoganDark
The highest tier of this laptop comes with four performance cores and twelve efficiency cores? What kind of Linux-kernel-compiler wants four cores?
stasomatic
It’s a niche box within its own niche (Linux). Perhaps they’ll do a pivot to eco friendly slippers. I admire their manifesto, but can’t see them surviving. You can get a last year’s decent Thinkpad for $400-600 with parts galore. This thing, you buy it on principle only.
erichocean
I wish they offered a Dvorak keyboard. Of all laptops, this is the most obvious one to do it.
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pb7
Why are they advertising only Linux OSes but the battery life numbers are for Windows 11? Why not show the Linux numbers?
christophilus
Well, this looks excellent.
IshKebab
64GB of RAM is £850? Insane timeline.
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whalesalad
Pre-ordered a Ultra X7 358H with 32GB as an upgrade from an M2 Air. I hope that I do not regret this.
rickdg
Very cool upgraded version. How noisy or hot does it get?
lazy-lambda
I am getting this one for sure. The waiting is over.
benoau
I might be in love...
gigatexal
This reminds me of the legit coal smoke black PowerBooks of yesteryear. If they make a 16 inch model I’ll def consider it.
matheusmoreira
> Your country might not be supported yet.
:(
killingtime74
Only 2.8k non OLED display?
smallstepforman
Who watches Netflix at 30% brightness? Another useless marketing blurb, really puts me off from reading the rest.
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luxuryballs
why is it so hard to find a simple keyboard layout diagram, the first full view of the keyboard I could find was flashing between different color options making it hard to see what the keys are, the first thing I think of for a “developer laptop” is what the keyboard is, feels like it should be more front-and-center (I might have just missed it though, on mobile)
atlgator
The 20 hour battery rating is for Windows 11. How long does Linux last?
That's a non-starter. Why not 128GB or push boundary for 256GB?
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dangus
I was sure they’d deliver Panther Lake but didn’t think it would have LPCAMM.
I thought they’d either solder the memory or skip out on delivering the good integrated graphics from the X SKUs.
I’m stunned in a good way. This is a MacBook Pro killer for the nerdier end of Apple’s market.
The fact that you mostly can pick and choose your upgrades to Pro is really cool, too.
The mid-tier X7 board sold alone seems like a great value and it would be a pretty solid uplift to the old system.
sourcegrift
What linux needs is a better logo, it's come so far ahead
foresterre
Finally! Glad they will now offer something which doesn't have a bending frame.
... but I wish they would make something with a bit more screen estate without being heavy and bulky. Their 16" is just too big. I really like the Dell XPS 14 and MBP 14", which I think is the right trade-off between screen size and portability.
farfatched
I'm a "Linux I. 2nd hand ThinkPad" type of person, but have recently admired my [first] MacBook Air.
Does a Framework Laptop bridge the gap somewhat?
alfiedotwtf
This looks like it would fit my next purchase, but how does VRAM work in this scenario (I can’t find anything in the docs)?
dbg31415
Do people actually like touch screens?
That's a huge negative for me.
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SilverElfin
I often see people talking about how MacBooks are better for local LLM usage. How would this compare?
skywal_l
75% keyboard?
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subscribed
sigh. I wish I knew. I've got Framework 13 (Ryzen AI 300 series) and it's battery life is absolutely awful. Won't even survive a weekend in sleep. My old, dying Dell was better.
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dzhiurgis
Very nitpicky, but video files for ASCII animation while advertising developer laptop. Cmon man.
Jyaif
Those transparent bezel look incredibly good.
muyuu
Now that RAM is unobtainium anyway, it seems like the case for very energy efficient laptops is more compelling vs inference-capable ones.
lawn
Please say that the new keyboard has QMK support?
It's the one thing I'm jealous of the Laptop 16 together with their key module that should let you design arbitrary layouts.
unethical_ban
This is awesome. I like my 2 year old framework and this new RAM looks really interesting, I need to learn more.
However, the 358H processor + 64GB RAM + 1TB NVMe is $2700. Wow. Even if I sold my current AMD 7840U with 64GB of RAM it would still be quite an investment.
The biggest question I have, which is probably easily searchable: How well will this run local LLMs? Seems the RAM is fast enough.
haspok
No dedicated Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/Ins/Del? Meh.
No T-shape cursor keys?!? Lame. No love. No want. Go home.
Thinkpad FTW. Sorry.
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tokyobreakfast
I get to choose 4 ports in a $2,000+ "developer" laptop? Is this a joke?
Most of the port options are decoys because it means 1 or 0 USB ports.
And no I'm not carrying around a satchel of modules like an old British lord.
cyberax
I was hoping for a monitor update for the 16" laptop. But:
Sorry. That's just not going to cut it. These are 5-year-old specs.
iririririr
"pro" in the name, without ECC ram is a travesty
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monegator
- Intel CPU -> No thanks
- Touchscreen -> mmkay, but i don't really care
- Haptic touchpad -> I absolutely hate those. I want to click buttons. Buttons. Buttons.
Well, this is not for me i guess :(
modeless
Hard for me to justify an Intel or even AMD chip now when not just Apple but even Qualcomm are trouncing them on single core performance. The Snapdragon X2 Elite performance cores are faster than any Intel or AMD core ever made, full stop.
Unfortunately Linux support isn't fully baked yet, but people are working on it.
It's so cool that every individual upgrade they did here can be hot-swapped back to the older designs. That's a huge extra lift that they didn't have to do.
To be specific: There's a new lower chassis, and a new chassis top with haptic touchpad. On my older framework I could buy just the chassis top to get the new touchpad. Crazy that they could make that work.
I also just really admire the CEO for doing these semi-scripted public presentations nerding out over the new devices and shouting out specific team members who did the designs. Really hope the company is doing well.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSxgCEpkiKM
I saw the announcement video and I'm so relieved to hear actual honest language!
- Actually naming your inspiration as Apple
- Saying that thanks to machined body, the keyboard is actually slightly better. No overstatement, just an honest detail
- No: "This is our best laptop yet" (As if managing to not making it worse is something to be proud of)
- To the point, fast paced, clear communication
- Honestly stating that you're working hard on getting as good as "the gold standard, which of course is Apples track pad" and that you think you'll get there soon
- Clearly stating that the new memory standard is not magically your own invention somehow even though you're the first to use it
- Clearly stating the actual numbers of the battery in Wh and density AND also how many video minutes you get
- Clearly stating, not hiding but also not overstating that you started the company for the purpose of upgradeability
- Proving what you mean with examples before emphasising that "we really mean it when we say we have redesigned the computer from the ground up" (While absolutely fantastically letting the new motherboards upgrade last generation chassis!)
Result: I placed a pre-order, and kind of felt sad for this honest and clear language to apparently be rare.
As soon as I saw the email announcement for the 13 Pro, my face fell. My assumption was that this was a brand new, incompatible chassis, and that my current 13 would be obsolete, and if I want to go further, I'd have to buy a whole new chassis in one go. Essentially a full laptop replacement, completely betraying the entire point.
And then I click through and see the compatibility table and my jaw drops. Amazing! Yes, it's a new chassis, but all the parts that matter will fit into my old chassis. And if I want to upgrade the chassis, I can even do that piece by piece as well, not all at once.
I'm also glad to see another Intel mainboard, and one with the new, actually-powerful iGPUs. A part of me has considered over time defecting to AMD, but I'm still just more comfortable with Intel, for some reason that probably isn't rational. My one concern is that their CPU options top out at 4 performance cores; the i7-1370P I have right now has 6. But I know these days it's hard to reason about real-world performance just by core count, especially with the different flavors of cores we have now.
Another worry: the thermals of the original 13 chassis have never been great, and I'm concerned that the new mainboard will throttle a bunch under load when installed in the old chassis.
At any rate, I may not upgrade this year, given RAM prices. I have 64GB of DDR4 in my current laptop, and replacing that with the same amount of LPCAMM2 LPDDR5X is probably more expensive than the rest of the laptop itself.
But maybe over the next few years I'll ship-of-theseus myself into a new laptop.
I'm really looking forward to having this as the go-to laptop to recommend to devs again. The original Framework chassis was really showing it's age next to e.g. a MacBook Pro or the new XPS 14.
Having mainline Linux on a system with 24h+ battery life in a 13" case is pretty damn impressive.
I’m happy to answer questions folks have around the product (later today).
As I love the idea of modular and repairable laptop, I've got some issues with it. I have Framework 13 AMD with Fedora (as Arch was almost unusable on it for me). Connecting external hardware to it, especially dock stations and monitors - which work flawlessly with another laptops - sometimes works, sometimes not...
I'll take this opportunity to report on my Framework Laptop 13 experience. I've had it for over a year.
The case is warped in multiple places. One USB C module doesn't accept a power charge reliably. It can overheat and shutdown. If the case flexes a little the trackpad stops responding - it needs to be on a flat surface. Power brick died.
On the plus side, my partner had one and when she threw it away she gave me her parts and I was able to swap some out. That was cool.
I really want to love this thing but at least in the UK, matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer.
Framework 13 Pro: £2064 (Ultra X7 358H, 16GB, 1TB, default ports, no adapter)
Framework 13 Pro: £2264 (Ultra X7 358H, 32GB, 1TB, default ports, no adapter)
MacBook Pro 14: £1699 (M5, 16GB, 1TB, no adapter)
MacBook Pro 14: £2099 (M5, 32GB, 1TB, no adapter)
MacBook Pro 14: £2199 (M5 Pro, 24GB, 1TB, no adapter) - added as I think it’s an even better deal
What I miss is a keyboard with dedicated keys for Home, End, Insert, Delete, PageUp, and PageDown. Sadly, this is still something only ThinkPads get right.
I really would like to give other laptops a chance but the substandard keyboards of most laptops are always holding me back.
the chassis upgrade is welcome and it is nice to see the company grow enough to start creating custom hardware, and supporting standards that should keep things modular without sacrifice.
at the same time, there is a decent level of risk with using "new" standards before the industry catches up. lpcamm2 is great and should allow faster memory while "upgradable". the issue is with only having one slot which forces you to replace memory instead of adding to it. this is working with the assumption of having a single slot, which i am happy to be proven wrong on.
the current timing is a shame but at least when one needs to shell out so much money after all, might as well get better performance and hardware along with it.
My main gripes:
- There's zero mention of the display technology, just "2.8K Touchscreen Display"
- The optional HDMI ("3rd Gen") adapter is only 4K 60hz, when the host chip has integrated Thunderbolt 4 which can output 4K 240Hz
This page is confusing and maybe even misleading. They write "Linux first". Few paragraphs later they write: 20 hours, Netflix 4K streaming, 250nit brightness, 30% volume, Windows 11. Why didn't they stream Neflix on Ubuntu they ship with?
Overall it looks awesome. I just bought Thinkpad T14s upgrading from the same model of older generation, I wish Framework would expand its sales coverage, probably would buy it without second thought if it was available in my country without overseas shipping and customs tax hurdles.
Is there an option for a keyboard with dedicated PgUp/PgDn/Home/End/Insert/Delete keys? I looked at a bunch of designs and didn't find any. If this is a developer-focused laptop, how can the keyboard be so developer-unfriendly? This is why I keep getting Lenovo laptops, they don't compromise on these keys.
Has anyone made the jump from a Mac to Framework as a daily driver? This is the first model to get my attention as a possible candidate for a full switch to Linux.
I’ve been a MacBook guy for almost a decade now, but I’ve been watching Framework since their first announcement. This is the most appealing Framework device I’ve seen.
The new display, battery life, the new Intel chips, and LPCAM2 memory all look great. I love my M1 MBP but Apple’s software quality has been rough the past year especially. I think this is also the first time the Framework 13 has officially supported Thunderbolt? Depending on how macOS 27 turns out I may seriously consider the 13 Pro as my next laptop. I’d slap Fedora Workstation on it and call it a day.
Man, I want to get a Framework, but I'm held back by the lack of trackpoint. Yes, I know it's not going to happen officially, but I just can't see myself using a laptop without one. So, until someone figures out some mod or 3rd-party part I'm sticking with Thinkpads.
Out of sheer curiosity, why do apple devices have astronomically longer battery life when sleeping? (How is the sleep so efficient?)
I was busy with work and didn't touch my personal laptop for a few weeks and it still had well over half the battery.
TIL LPCAMM2 exists. What an awesome solution to allow memory replacements while meeting all of the other requirements for laptops.
I really wish this had a 4K display option. As someone who dislikes fractional scaling.
I'm clinging on to my older Thinkpad X1 because the 4K display is so good.
Oh my god, yet _another_ "developer-focused" laptop with full-sized left/right arrow keys, which are an absolutely miserable experience to actually use.
How is it that Apple is the only company these days() that consistently gets this right?
( Yes, I know they used full-sized keys for a while, I moaned and cursed them at the time as well.)
I'm amazed looking at the upgrade kit. It's everything you need to go from the old 13" to the Pro; including chassis, display, battery, keyboard etc - listed at $255. That's an instant buy from me.
https://frame.work/sg/en/products/framework-laptop-13-pro-ch...
For me, this was an immediate buy.
Everything about this is what I've been looking for in a Linux laptop. (Also, how refreshing is it to not have to think hard about how much RAM you might need over the next few years because you know you can always upgrade it later?)
Nice upgrades, but no mention of ECC RAM, the single thing that I wanted from an upgrade for a decade? Why do chip makers refuse to take our money? :-P
A few years ago we were told only "Pro" parts have ECC: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37828168
The whole page advertises how well this runs Linux, but then…
> The side-firing speakers are tuned with Dolby Atmos® to deliver clear, balanced audio on Windows
These are cool laptops. But, after getting a decent config (32gb ram, 1tb ssd, 7 series chip), the price is ~$2300. At that point, a MacBook Pro seems like a better choice. I'd not want to develop on anything less than that config. The selling point seems to be the Linux + Framework brand + highly customizable machine you can actually own
I've always wondered if these laptops can scale beyond the enthusiast group. If so, how?
Man, this looks really, really impressive. It basically solves every issue we could find to the framework 13. Can't wait for the reviews.
Accepting the prices of the ram shortage era is still painful, but even with the 64gb option, here in France it's still a great deal compared to similarly configured premium thinkpads or macbook pros.
From what I can ascertain, the new bigger battery is incompatible with the old chassis: https://frame.work/products/pro-battery-74wh
"This product can only be used with both the Framework Laptop 13 Pro Bottom Cover and Framework Laptop 13 Pro Input Cover."
I applaud that the mainboard and keyboard are backwards compatible, but I don't think the pro is quite as backwards compatible as some are thinking
Why no trackpoint support yet? I saw it being requested a lot of times already. Really tired of using ThinkPads, would love to change to anything else, but trackpoint is the only thing that keeps me from switching.
Ohh they finally ship to New Zealand. It's a shame they wouldn't last year, and I ended up with a Lenovo :/
Here is a more explanatory video what's new and how it looks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnOpIQJnYWU
I really wish they'd do a tablet / MS Surface alternative. After the Laptop 12 the experience should be there. The demand is real and the current landscape looks dire. Alone the people who say they'd love an iPad Pro with a real OS on it.
I'll be excited to buy one of these (or the newer iteration) if component prices ever return to pre-2025 levels. AUD$800 for 32GB RAM is insanity (which is of course not within their control, but my purchasing impulses are - at least for now).
Is Framework open to an OLED panel option in the future? I have an eye disease that makes extremely high contrast and extremely deep blacks very helpful to me, since it means I can get good contrast with less total light. I can still read LCD displays well enough, but as my eyes worsen, that may not be true.
Since Framework has a great track record with display upgradability, just an indication that there is serious interest in OLED options in the future would be enough to sell me.
So if anyone at Framework is reading this: is there any opposition inside framework to OLED? Any fundamental constraints that make OLED panels unlikely for the next several years?
Finally a haptic trackpad. Unfortunately not having one was a dealbreaker when purchasing my laptop last year, but next upgrade I'll be able to consider them again.
Why do I need a touchscreen and Dolby Atmos as developer?
Part of me was hoping there would be some sort of official arm mainboard announced, I know there's the third party version but they don't seem to sell the main board only.
How is ubuntu support for touchscreens these days?
How does it compare to an ipad in terms of fidelity / responsiveness, and for native-feeling integration with ubuntu?
I am, naturally, a bit skeptical that touchscreen UI would be any good in linux.
A laptop without a unified memory model is categorically incapable of being the "ultimate developer laptop". Framework already have Strix Halo machines, I don't know why they felt the need to hamstring this thing with Intel.
Wish it supported coreboot. It seems hard to find modern hardware that does.
Macbook Pro 14" with M5, 32GB RAM, 1TB HDD = $2,099.00
Framework Pro 13" DIY AMD Ryzen 7 350, 32GB RAM, 1TB HDD = $2,049.00
Framework Pro 13" Pre-Built AMD Ryzen 7 350, 32GB RAM, 1TB HDD = $2,059.00
The unevenly sized arrow keys still prevent me from buying any of it.
You can get a new Asus P16 ProArt with 5070 for exact same price (AI 370, 2TB drive, 64GB RAM)
No Ryzen options? Also no 1600nits display for working outside. Battery and display brightness are the only reasons I'm sticking with Macbook Pro.Sad it's not a priority for any other manufacturer. Because that's all you need, quality display, battery and remote access.
I would be really interested in a podcast with the CEO where he goes a bit into the trade-offs of backwards and forwards compatibility. I can not imagine that their planning was so immaculate that there aren't any regressions that a clean slate design could have cleaned up. Nevertheless, amazing job for putting this together it looks like a phenomenal product!
Cool, though I'd prefer a Framework 12 Pro (convertible, or even a detachable) with a Wacom EMR digitizer.
Depending on how good that haptic trackpad is, this could be a real Macbook Pro competitor. 32GB of RAM on my M1 Pro is starting to feel a bit cramped.
I've been super happy with my Framework desktop. And since getting that I've been craving replacing my MacBook... This looks super attractive
If Framework offered MacOS keyboard layout I’d switch without a thought.
> Watch a Framework Laptop 13 Pro battery go from 100% to 0%. Live.
Live stream is not available.
It's unfortunate that I am unable to access these new products because Framework does not ship to Japan. I have an original Framework 13 that's CPU fan has been making death noises. There is also a broken screw mount in the base.
I didn't do shipment forwarding. I just bought the product and later moved to Japan. Also, Framework supposedly blocks shipment forwarding.
It's odd, because I remember them advertising a Japanese keyboard layout in the past. They must not see a large enough market to justify the costs.
this looks exciting. We are allowed to choose between Windows, macOS and Linu at my job so I might consider this when we are due for an upgrade in a year or 2. Feels wrong to discard our M2 Pro machines when they are perfectly capable of my relatively minuscule workloads at the moment, it only slowed down once when I had a memory leak in Safari from a AWS tab
The expansion card system seems like something I would actually really like, especially as a hardware engineer. But the more I thought about it I couldn't really think of any compelling expansion cards that were worth the effort. So I figured I would look at what was in their store to see what other people thought up, and there isn't really any 3rd party store that I could find.
I did find this list: https://community.frame.work/t/list-of-company-or-individual...
According to it there are more 3rd party main boards than expansion cards. I kinda get it, but wow. End of an era I guess.
Don’t think I have ever came across a queue to buy a laptop before but congrats to the framework team.
This fixes a lot of things that had made me hesitant to buy Framework before.
Please make a standalone case with a usb port for the keyboard trackpad! I would love to have it for when I connect the laptop to an external monitor. I hate the mouse, but I love the trackpad right under the keyboard.
There is no such product in the market.
I wish it was easy to port Asahi Linux to macbook neo. That would be insane!
Just wish they'd give the FW16 the same treatment, at least in terms of the build. You shouldn't choose a laptop based on looks but thats hitting exactly what I want, minus the 16" screen
Glad they got a touchscreen but would really like to see a convertible/2-in-1
I really like what Framwork has been doing, but I have an honest question: is 20 hours of Netflix 4k streaming at 250nit and 30% volume a spec to show off? I genuinely don't know.
I thought most modern laptops have dedicated video decode hardware that is fairly easy on battery. At only 250nit though...that seems dim by today's standards. I'm happy to be wrong though!
It's beautiful. Just got a Framework 13 a few months ago, so I can't justify buying a pro just to get it in black... right?
It doesn't come with any RAM? You have to add $140 for 8GB or "bring your own"...so the list price does not represent a working computer?
Without a mockup of what all the customizable parts will look like... it's hard to commit to a build.
I continue to admire Framework from afar. If I were to switch from MacOS to Linux, they'd be at the top of my list when shopping.
Trackpoint/nipple?
This is great - a Macbook Pro for Linux users, made of CNC milled aluminum, haptic trackpad, and 20+ hours of 4k video playback under Linux
Is there a side by side comparison for their products anywhere? I'd like to compare this to the current 16 specs. And are they planning a "Pro" version of the 16?
I don't have plans to buy a laptop in the near future, but its nice to have this as an option. I like the idea of a bespoke Linux machine I could use.
When my hard plastic chassis T470 from 2016 dies and cannot be repaired, I will for sure buy a Framework.
Anyone know much about the new top of the line Intel vs AMD CPU options? Which is more power efficient? Powerful?
I love their intro video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GnOpIQJnYWU
Intel has really crushed it lately.
Are the mainboards and upgrade kits available for purchase now or just the whole laptop?
edit: I think I found it: https://frame.work/products/laptop13pro-mainboard-intel-ultr...
Too bad there's no second m2 slot for extra disk and no 5G WWAN support.
Personally, I don't understand aluminum chassis. Sure, it feels more premium, but it comes with quite a bit more weight than plastic, and I much prefer less weight over "feel" when it comes to a laptop.
I'm happy to see they finally added a touchscreen. This will probably be my next laptop.
I have to buy it. This company deserve a support.
Beautiful laptop and then they stick a tiny 13" screen on there, I don't get it. 14" is the perfect size. Guess it just isn't the one for me.
Hey let's make a very versatile laptop with tons of options for consumers, and let's not offer the other Standard Canadian French keyboard, let's just have the old one Windows forces on people.
Assuming the Qualcomm ARM lawsuits are what’s preventing the AArch64 debut…
I would love to go framework and the specs here look pretty awesome but 5g modem is a must have for me and they dont really have an option for that. I am guessing due to the antennas.
I wonder if they'll ever make a "Toughbook" type of laptop. Those things are very interesting, since you can shove drives in and out of them and it matches the spirit of what this is.
Blah why do they insist on those full height arrow keys.
I'm struggling to understand if this supports usb-c based thunderbolt
LPCAMM2 looks interesting. How much is that RAM though :'(
Looks awesome, but any developer laptop should have an inverted-T layout for arrows.
Those might look cool, but they're a huge pain to use.
Framework is cool, but Lenovo and Dell have been selling repairable enterprise laptops with Linux support for years. Some Precision/XPS laptops even have replaceable graphics cards.* It feels like they don't get nearly as much attention.
* Some will even work with graphics cards from newer laptops using the same chassis; for example, the Precision 7530 (8th gen Intel + Pascal GPUs) can be upgraded with Precision 7540 (Turing) GPUs. This isn't officially supported, though, and may not apply to later models.
Can this drive a Studio Display XDR at 120 Hz? I wonder if anyone else is thinking about this and how to figure out compatibility.
I said it before, I'll say it again: I won't consider Framework until they ditch they're crippled cursor block or offer trackpoint.
I'll buy one on the day of release if they offer both options (my most recent¹ Lenovo is long overdue for replacement)
¹ I don't think I'll ever sell my X220, any I regret selling my X270. Everything after that was a disappointment.
Damn this is cool !!
Strix Halo version available for pre-order!
> with excellent Linux support
So can we finally update the firmware for the Sandisk SN7100 and 850X SSDs under Linux? Last time I've checked you couldn't even download the firmware for WD 850X using a plain browser. You had to use their "special" Windows software.
Congratulations! Incredible!
Thoughts on the chassis being all aluminum, vs. a magnesium alloy?
I would have liked the option of non-touch display, and although the display is variable rate (30-120Hz) it's not going to be as optimal as the 1-120Hz panel in the Dell XPS 14 getting it to 40+ hours (https://x.com/dhh/status/2040139744445673938).
The highest tier of this laptop comes with four performance cores and twelve efficiency cores? What kind of Linux-kernel-compiler wants four cores?
It’s a niche box within its own niche (Linux). Perhaps they’ll do a pivot to eco friendly slippers. I admire their manifesto, but can’t see them surviving. You can get a last year’s decent Thinkpad for $400-600 with parts galore. This thing, you buy it on principle only.
I wish they offered a Dvorak keyboard. Of all laptops, this is the most obvious one to do it.
Why are they advertising only Linux OSes but the battery life numbers are for Windows 11? Why not show the Linux numbers?
Well, this looks excellent.
64GB of RAM is £850? Insane timeline.
Pre-ordered a Ultra X7 358H with 32GB as an upgrade from an M2 Air. I hope that I do not regret this.
Very cool upgraded version. How noisy or hot does it get?
I am getting this one for sure. The waiting is over.
I might be in love...
This reminds me of the legit coal smoke black PowerBooks of yesteryear. If they make a 16 inch model I’ll def consider it.
> Your country might not be supported yet.
:(
Only 2.8k non OLED display?
Who watches Netflix at 30% brightness? Another useless marketing blurb, really puts me off from reading the rest.
why is it so hard to find a simple keyboard layout diagram, the first full view of the keyboard I could find was flashing between different color options making it hard to see what the keys are, the first thing I think of for a “developer laptop” is what the keyboard is, feels like it should be more front-and-center (I might have just missed it though, on mobile)
The 20 hour battery rating is for Windows 11. How long does Linux last?
Blog post: https://frame.work/blog/introducing-framework-laptop-13-pro
> up to 64GB of LPCAMM2 LPDDR5X
That's a non-starter. Why not 128GB or push boundary for 256GB?
I was sure they’d deliver Panther Lake but didn’t think it would have LPCAMM.
I thought they’d either solder the memory or skip out on delivering the good integrated graphics from the X SKUs.
I’m stunned in a good way. This is a MacBook Pro killer for the nerdier end of Apple’s market.
The fact that you mostly can pick and choose your upgrades to Pro is really cool, too.
The mid-tier X7 board sold alone seems like a great value and it would be a pretty solid uplift to the old system.
What linux needs is a better logo, it's come so far ahead
Finally! Glad they will now offer something which doesn't have a bending frame.
... but I wish they would make something with a bit more screen estate without being heavy and bulky. Their 16" is just too big. I really like the Dell XPS 14 and MBP 14", which I think is the right trade-off between screen size and portability.
I'm a "Linux I. 2nd hand ThinkPad" type of person, but have recently admired my [first] MacBook Air.
Does a Framework Laptop bridge the gap somewhat?
This looks like it would fit my next purchase, but how does VRAM work in this scenario (I can’t find anything in the docs)?
Do people actually like touch screens?
That's a huge negative for me.
I often see people talking about how MacBooks are better for local LLM usage. How would this compare?
75% keyboard?
sigh. I wish I knew. I've got Framework 13 (Ryzen AI 300 series) and it's battery life is absolutely awful. Won't even survive a weekend in sleep. My old, dying Dell was better.
Very nitpicky, but video files for ASCII animation while advertising developer laptop. Cmon man.
Those transparent bezel look incredibly good.
Now that RAM is unobtainium anyway, it seems like the case for very energy efficient laptops is more compelling vs inference-capable ones.
Please say that the new keyboard has QMK support?
It's the one thing I'm jealous of the Laptop 16 together with their key module that should let you design arbitrary layouts.
This is awesome. I like my 2 year old framework and this new RAM looks really interesting, I need to learn more.
However, the 358H processor + 64GB RAM + 1TB NVMe is $2700. Wow. Even if I sold my current AMD 7840U with 64GB of RAM it would still be quite an investment.
The biggest question I have, which is probably easily searchable: How well will this run local LLMs? Seems the RAM is fast enough.
No dedicated Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/Ins/Del? Meh.
No T-shape cursor keys?!? Lame. No love. No want. Go home.
Thinkpad FTW. Sorry.
I get to choose 4 ports in a $2,000+ "developer" laptop? Is this a joke?
Most of the port options are decoys because it means 1 or 0 USB ports.
And no I'm not carrying around a satchel of modules like an old British lord.
I was hoping for a monitor update for the 16" laptop. But:
> 16" 16:1- Anti-glare matte display (2560x1600), 500 nits, no HDR
Sorry. That's just not going to cut it. These are 5-year-old specs.
"pro" in the name, without ECC ram is a travesty
- Intel CPU -> No thanks
- Touchscreen -> mmkay, but i don't really care
- Haptic touchpad -> I absolutely hate those. I want to click buttons. Buttons. Buttons.
Well, this is not for me i guess :(
Hard for me to justify an Intel or even AMD chip now when not just Apple but even Qualcomm are trouncing them on single core performance. The Snapdragon X2 Elite performance cores are faster than any Intel or AMD core ever made, full stop.
Unfortunately Linux support isn't fully baked yet, but people are working on it.