Looking at that star graph: Since OpenClaw became a thing, I can't help but conclude that Github interest/popularity metrics have become useless signals.
show comments
jesse_dot_id
OpenClaw opens a wide attack surface on your digital life that cannot be remediated so long as hallucinations and prompt injection remain unsolved problems. Anything built on top of it is equally insecure and probably even more insecure.
I really don't want to yuck anybody's yums or step on dev work that I had nothing to do with, because I've been there and I know it sucks, but OpenClaw is barely secure enough to even play with in a sandbox. Giving it private information about your real business and real business contacts feels like an absolutely insane thing to do.
At best OpenClaw is like a toy... if the toy was a gun and it shot real bullets. This feels like playing Russian roulette with your livelihood.
show comments
falloon
Readme has a discord link claiming 25K online, might want to update that it's quite misleading.
show comments
tuesdaynight
Are small local models good enough for driving OpenClaw-likes or an API key from one of the big labs is needed?
show comments
theturtletalks
Seems interesting, but I see it's a fork of Openclaw that's many commits behind. Do you think you'll be able to keep DenchClaw updated with Openclaw?
I think a better solution would be to bring in one of the many Openclaw alternatives like NullClaw, ZeroClaw, etc. The magic of Openclaw is the heartbeat and cron modules so bringing in that piece should not be too difficult? I'll fork and hack away at it as well but the less dependent you are on other projects, the longer the longevity.
show comments
themanmaran
In terms of "[XYZ] for agents", I think CRM is a big one that people haven't talked about as much. It becomes super relevant as soon as people start using an agent for anything customer related.
And the design principals are already pretty well established (accounts, contacts, leads, opportunities, custom object model, stages, etc.). It just needs to be turned into a database boilerplate with a bunch of agent tools. Excited to try this out.
show comments
kumar_abhirup
Everything is skills. In a file system. That is the future.
Responding to some HN comments, I understand the focus on Sales Automation and Outreach can be worrysome.
But for me personally, this is where I do all knowledge work. For me it acts like Cursor, Happenstance, News Aggregator, Fun games creator like Pacman (it has an App Store), I can import Notion into editable MD files, create reports and presentations, etc.
AykutSek
Watched the demo — the outreach pipeline is impressive technically, but you mentioned midway that the drafted emails came out "kind of robotic" and needed manual editing. If a human still reviews and rewrites each one, where does the actual time saving land — in the data gathering, or somewhere else?
show comments
strongpigeon
One on hand, this is genuinely cool. On the other end, this is the final nail in cold outreach's coffin.
show comments
crowcroft
Not a biggie, but might want to update the reference to 'Ironclaw' in the Try Ironclaw link at the top of dench.com
show comments
olq_plo
Great, thanks for making me Google what CRM means in this context. Neither your post nor your website explains the acronym.
show comments
dandaka
Can my agents (powered by NanoClaw or Claude Code) use the CRM without installing OpenClaw codebase?
show comments
_pdp_
I find it amusing that one of the main things to do with OpenClaw and other similar tools is create a Web Interface on top of it so that users can click on buttons when the entire promise of the technology is that you don't have to do any of that because it transcends standard UI.
I mean, ultimately why would you even need a CRM if not to sell something? And if you are going to sell something ultimately you want to get that done without any additional layers of abstraction. So the interface is the definition of the goal and the output is measured in results.
"Hey claw, I want to sell my product. Go figure it out!"
You don't need a UI for that.
show comments
ancientcap
the crm isnt the hard part, the hard part is that most sales teams have a workflow problem disguised as a tooling problem. local first is smart but id focus on opinionated defaults for pipeline stages because thats where 90% of founders building their own crm get stuck, they model their process wrong then blame the software.
show comments
imiric
Well, of course I will test this thing you built in 2 days[1] for you!
Combining OpenClaw with sensitive personal data is a recipe for disaster.
show comments
maCDzP
I really want a DeathClaw product.
spiderfarmer
At what point does this become an AI powered spamming machine?
show comments
paroneayea
Wow, sorry, but given how incredibly insecure all the "claw" agent type things are right now, does this really sound wise at all?
It sees everything you do, really? What's it gonna do with that data? You don't know.
Put all your customer data in there, all your customer relationships. It's fine, it couldn't leak all that information, it couldn't screw up any sensitive business details I'm sure. This is gonna go great.
Sorry AFK everybody I'm gonna go get myself a VibeMBA.
Anyway, good luck, I'm really looking forward to the user stories in a few weeks! I'm sure this won't go badly at all.
show comments
zer00eyz
> It has a CRM focus because we asked a couple dozen hard-core OpenClaw users "what do you actually do", and it was sales automation, lead enrichment, biz dev, creating slides, linkedin outreach, email/notion/calendar stuff, and it's always painful to set up.
So basic automation and forcing the web to be "open"...
No one is talking about how AI is going to destroy business models that are dependent on dark patterns, on walled gardens, on poorly designed one size fits all implementations (so many things wedged sideways into sales force).
show comments
mstank
Am I the only one that read this as "DeathClaw"?
show comments
ftkftk
In response maybe we should design TCPAclaw. It is specialized in honeypotting all of the random cold call spam, tracks down the source of unsolicited contacts; including registration state, legal contacts, and registered agent(s). It then drafts and sends a TCPA letter and waits for one of two things to happen: Either a $500-$1500 check arriving in your mailbox, or the demand deadline elapses. In case of demand deadline elapse, TCPAclaw files a small claims suit in the appropriate court of jurisdiction.
Fight fire with fire.
show comments
bluepeter
> sales automation, lead enrichment, biz dev, [...] linkedin outreach,
Sigh.
show comments
shafyy
> It has a CRM focus because we asked a couple dozen hard-core OpenClaw users "what do you actually do", and it was sales automation, lead enrichment, biz dev, creating slides, linkedin outreach, email/notion/calendar stuff, and it's always painful to set up.
Fuck me, it's going to get worse before it gets better, isn't it?
Looking at that star graph: Since OpenClaw became a thing, I can't help but conclude that Github interest/popularity metrics have become useless signals.
OpenClaw opens a wide attack surface on your digital life that cannot be remediated so long as hallucinations and prompt injection remain unsolved problems. Anything built on top of it is equally insecure and probably even more insecure.
I really don't want to yuck anybody's yums or step on dev work that I had nothing to do with, because I've been there and I know it sucks, but OpenClaw is barely secure enough to even play with in a sandbox. Giving it private information about your real business and real business contacts feels like an absolutely insane thing to do.
At best OpenClaw is like a toy... if the toy was a gun and it shot real bullets. This feels like playing Russian roulette with your livelihood.
Readme has a discord link claiming 25K online, might want to update that it's quite misleading.
Are small local models good enough for driving OpenClaw-likes or an API key from one of the big labs is needed?
Seems interesting, but I see it's a fork of Openclaw that's many commits behind. Do you think you'll be able to keep DenchClaw updated with Openclaw?
I think a better solution would be to bring in one of the many Openclaw alternatives like NullClaw, ZeroClaw, etc. The magic of Openclaw is the heartbeat and cron modules so bringing in that piece should not be too difficult? I'll fork and hack away at it as well but the less dependent you are on other projects, the longer the longevity.
In terms of "[XYZ] for agents", I think CRM is a big one that people haven't talked about as much. It becomes super relevant as soon as people start using an agent for anything customer related.
And the design principals are already pretty well established (accounts, contacts, leads, opportunities, custom object model, stages, etc.). It just needs to be turned into a database boilerplate with a bunch of agent tools. Excited to try this out.
Everything is skills. In a file system. That is the future.
Responding to some HN comments, I understand the focus on Sales Automation and Outreach can be worrysome.
But for me personally, this is where I do all knowledge work. For me it acts like Cursor, Happenstance, News Aggregator, Fun games creator like Pacman (it has an App Store), I can import Notion into editable MD files, create reports and presentations, etc.
Watched the demo — the outreach pipeline is impressive technically, but you mentioned midway that the drafted emails came out "kind of robotic" and needed manual editing. If a human still reviews and rewrites each one, where does the actual time saving land — in the data gathering, or somewhere else?
One on hand, this is genuinely cool. On the other end, this is the final nail in cold outreach's coffin.
Not a biggie, but might want to update the reference to 'Ironclaw' in the Try Ironclaw link at the top of dench.com
Great, thanks for making me Google what CRM means in this context. Neither your post nor your website explains the acronym.
Can my agents (powered by NanoClaw or Claude Code) use the CRM without installing OpenClaw codebase?
I find it amusing that one of the main things to do with OpenClaw and other similar tools is create a Web Interface on top of it so that users can click on buttons when the entire promise of the technology is that you don't have to do any of that because it transcends standard UI.
I mean, ultimately why would you even need a CRM if not to sell something? And if you are going to sell something ultimately you want to get that done without any additional layers of abstraction. So the interface is the definition of the goal and the output is measured in results.
"Hey claw, I want to sell my product. Go figure it out!"
You don't need a UI for that.
the crm isnt the hard part, the hard part is that most sales teams have a workflow problem disguised as a tooling problem. local first is smart but id focus on opinionated defaults for pipeline stages because thats where 90% of founders building their own crm get stuck, they model their process wrong then blame the software.
Well, of course I will test this thing you built in 2 days[1] for you!
[1]: https://xcancel.com/kumareth/status/2023534527113818625
I just use plain-text files for my CRM in Obsidian [1]. Works great if you are a solo founder only.
[1] https://www.ssp.sh/brain/managing-my-business-with-obsidian/
Combining OpenClaw with sensitive personal data is a recipe for disaster.
I really want a DeathClaw product.
At what point does this become an AI powered spamming machine?
Wow, sorry, but given how incredibly insecure all the "claw" agent type things are right now, does this really sound wise at all?
It sees everything you do, really? What's it gonna do with that data? You don't know.
Put all your customer data in there, all your customer relationships. It's fine, it couldn't leak all that information, it couldn't screw up any sensitive business details I'm sure. This is gonna go great.
Sorry AFK everybody I'm gonna go get myself a VibeMBA.
Anyway, good luck, I'm really looking forward to the user stories in a few weeks! I'm sure this won't go badly at all.
> It has a CRM focus because we asked a couple dozen hard-core OpenClaw users "what do you actually do", and it was sales automation, lead enrichment, biz dev, creating slides, linkedin outreach, email/notion/calendar stuff, and it's always painful to set up.
So basic automation and forcing the web to be "open"...
No one is talking about how AI is going to destroy business models that are dependent on dark patterns, on walled gardens, on poorly designed one size fits all implementations (so many things wedged sideways into sales force).
Am I the only one that read this as "DeathClaw"?
In response maybe we should design TCPAclaw. It is specialized in honeypotting all of the random cold call spam, tracks down the source of unsolicited contacts; including registration state, legal contacts, and registered agent(s). It then drafts and sends a TCPA letter and waits for one of two things to happen: Either a $500-$1500 check arriving in your mailbox, or the demand deadline elapses. In case of demand deadline elapse, TCPAclaw files a small claims suit in the appropriate court of jurisdiction.
Fight fire with fire.
> sales automation, lead enrichment, biz dev, [...] linkedin outreach,
Sigh.
> It has a CRM focus because we asked a couple dozen hard-core OpenClaw users "what do you actually do", and it was sales automation, lead enrichment, biz dev, creating slides, linkedin outreach, email/notion/calendar stuff, and it's always painful to set up.
Fuck me, it's going to get worse before it gets better, isn't it?