Without being a cpu geek, a lot of the branch prediction details go over my head, however generally a good review. I liked the detail of performance on more complex workloads where IPC can get muddy when you need more instructions.
I feel these days however, for any comparison of performance, power envelope needs to be included (I realise this is dependent on the final chip)
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dinglo
If ARM starts dominating in desktop and laptop spaces with a quite different set of applications, might we start seeing more software bugs around race conditions? Caused by developers writing software with X86 in mind, with its differing constraints on memory ordering.
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pdpi
Kind of weird to see an article about high-performance ARM cores without a single reference to Apple or how this hardware compares to M4 or M5 cores.
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xarope
I can't seem to find any power draw or efficiency figures (e.g. <perf>/watts).
Why would I care about desktop performance without the PC desktop ecosystem where everything 'just works'? Universal ARM linux distros aren't supported by anything.
It has some interesting conclusions, such as that it covers certain AVX512 gaps:
"AVX512 plugs many of the holes that SSE had, whilst SVE2 adds more complex operations (such as histogramming and bit permutation), and even introduces new ‘gaps’ (such as 32/64-bit element only COMPACT, no general vector byte left-shift, non-universal predication etc)."
And also that rusty x86 developers might face skill issues:
"Depending on your application, writing code for SVE2 can bring about new challenges. In particular, tailoring fixed-width problems and swizzling data around vectors may become much more difficult when the length is unknown."
rayiner
ARM designs are effectively paper launches. You get these press releases saying the new ARM matches Apple and AMD, but its years before you can buy a product with it. Google Pixels that came out in the fall are still on the X4, which was introduced in 2023. At this rate, Pixel 11 will launch with X925, which is an Apple A17/M3 tier core, when Apple is on the A20: https://wccftech.com/apple-a20-and-a20-pro-all-technological.... Outsourcing the core design creates a major lag in product availability.
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exabrial
Hoping someday we can get ARM System76 laptops that meet Apple M* chip performance.
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megous
BTW, does anyone have some pointers to where one can find an oldish in-order Cortex-A core (like A53) in verilog RTL form? I know ARM must give this out to companies that implement ARM based SoCs for eg. purpose of validation on FPGA.
So far I've only found various M cores online. It would be fun to have something to experiment with on a cheapish FPGA like Kintex XC7-K480T, that may have enough resources for some in-order A core, and can be had for $50 or so.
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sylware
But with hardware IP locks like x86_64.
Better favor as much as possible RISC-V implementations.
But, I don't know if there are already good modern-desktop-grade RISC-V implementations (in the US, Sifive is moving fast as far as I know)... and the hard part: accessing the latest and greatest silicon process of TMSC, aka ~5GHz.
Those markets are completely saturated, namely at best, it will be very slow unless something big does happen: for instance AMD adapts its best micro-architecture to RISC-V (ISA decoding mostly), etc.
And if valve start to distribute a client with a strong RISC-V game compilation framework...
show comments
ddtaylor
Can't zoom any of the content on mobile so most of the charts are unreadable.
Without being a cpu geek, a lot of the branch prediction details go over my head, however generally a good review. I liked the detail of performance on more complex workloads where IPC can get muddy when you need more instructions.
I feel these days however, for any comparison of performance, power envelope needs to be included (I realise this is dependent on the final chip)
If ARM starts dominating in desktop and laptop spaces with a quite different set of applications, might we start seeing more software bugs around race conditions? Caused by developers writing software with X86 in mind, with its differing constraints on memory ordering.
Kind of weird to see an article about high-performance ARM cores without a single reference to Apple or how this hardware compares to M4 or M5 cores.
I can't seem to find any power draw or efficiency figures (e.g. <perf>/watts).
Only found this which talks about performance-per-area (PPA) and performance-per-clock ()I assume cycle) (PPC): https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1gvo28c/latest_ar...
Already usurped by Arm C1 Ultra.
https://www.androidauthority.com/arm-c1-cpu-mali-g1-gpu-deep...
Why would I care about desktop performance without the PC desktop ecosystem where everything 'just works'? Universal ARM linux distros aren't supported by anything.
Another good read is about ARM's SVE2 extensions: https://gist.github.com/zingaburga/805669eb891c820bd220418ee...
It has some interesting conclusions, such as that it covers certain AVX512 gaps:
"AVX512 plugs many of the holes that SSE had, whilst SVE2 adds more complex operations (such as histogramming and bit permutation), and even introduces new ‘gaps’ (such as 32/64-bit element only COMPACT, no general vector byte left-shift, non-universal predication etc)."
And also that rusty x86 developers might face skill issues:
"Depending on your application, writing code for SVE2 can bring about new challenges. In particular, tailoring fixed-width problems and swizzling data around vectors may become much more difficult when the length is unknown."
ARM designs are effectively paper launches. You get these press releases saying the new ARM matches Apple and AMD, but its years before you can buy a product with it. Google Pixels that came out in the fall are still on the X4, which was introduced in 2023. At this rate, Pixel 11 will launch with X925, which is an Apple A17/M3 tier core, when Apple is on the A20: https://wccftech.com/apple-a20-and-a20-pro-all-technological.... Outsourcing the core design creates a major lag in product availability.
Hoping someday we can get ARM System76 laptops that meet Apple M* chip performance.
BTW, does anyone have some pointers to where one can find an oldish in-order Cortex-A core (like A53) in verilog RTL form? I know ARM must give this out to companies that implement ARM based SoCs for eg. purpose of validation on FPGA.
So far I've only found various M cores online. It would be fun to have something to experiment with on a cheapish FPGA like Kintex XC7-K480T, that may have enough resources for some in-order A core, and can be had for $50 or so.
But with hardware IP locks like x86_64.
Better favor as much as possible RISC-V implementations.
But, I don't know if there are already good modern-desktop-grade RISC-V implementations (in the US, Sifive is moving fast as far as I know)... and the hard part: accessing the latest and greatest silicon process of TMSC, aka ~5GHz.
Those markets are completely saturated, namely at best, it will be very slow unless something big does happen: for instance AMD adapts its best micro-architecture to RISC-V (ISA decoding mostly), etc.
And if valve start to distribute a client with a strong RISC-V game compilation framework...
Can't zoom any of the content on mobile so most of the charts are unreadable.