> the model has to re-run the generation, and the client has to start receiving tokens from scratch again.
I don't understand. The payload can be designed to have sequence number. In case of reconnect, send the last known sequence number. Sounds like a application level protocol problem and not transport. Am I missing something?
The pub/sub mentioned in the article essentially does the same thing.
show comments
wyldfire
Not x86_64's Streaming SIMD Extensions, but Server-sent events [1]. SSE and AVX are probably not that bad at /handling/ LLM tokens...
Author tries to avoid a database for storing tokens while the client is disconnected and ends up storing them in a pub/sub provider.
There's no solution other than to store the tokens somewhere, or drop them. You have to make a choice how long you want to allow reconnects for. And this is all pretty independent of the transport layer, as the author even mentioned themselves, you can resume even a new session as long as you have a prompt ID or something to tie it back to the original request.
I don't know enough about how the LLM providers stream results, but the original claim that inference is more expensive than transport is a good point, and caching tokens seems like a smart move. Unfortunately, we pay by the token, so I don't see the incentive for providers to spend time and money doing this for us.
show comments
raggi
Resumable “at least once” pub sub would be exactly the same architectural semantics as a more complete SSE implementation.
A server would keep a buffer of events and a cursor keyed by some kind of event id. Resuming clients would reattach on a new dissociated connection and ask to resume from a particular id.
This is what the id field in events and the last-event-id are for in the SSE specification.
A pub sub system would also not solve the described unidirectional problem.
As inference is so expensive it seems natural to add a sensible stream buffer solution in some middleware and that’s trivial to write. Hell it’s the kind of thing a one paragraph prompt would almost certainly one-shot.
The post seems to be more of a reaction to some specific situation than a meaningful commentary on the protocol or associated architectures.
sauercrowd
Seems like there's a few abstractions mixed up, the problems have nothing to do with SSE.
You can store the state in the SSE connection and have the problems described, and if you don't like those, you can move thr state to something distributed/persisted.
Pubsub is just a layer on top of SSE or websockets, cause guess how it'd end up sending things to the browser
show comments
_pdp_
We ended up using JSONL for our implementation but it is also possible to switch using other "streamable" variants like SSE and even CSV if that is what you are into.
But, as the OP suggested, none of these are resumable. So we have created a pub/sub over HTTP that does exactly this.
The way it works is that you get a unique URL that is specific to the current authenticated session. You can request data as many time as you like from that URL and it will get streamed to your client from the last checkpoint.
It works well even with rudimentary tools like curl. There is practically no protocol of sorts required - the kind of implementation I really like because who wants more complications in their life, right?
The big issue build conversational and even agentic AI with off-the-shelf frameworks rather than using a platform such as ours is that there is a lot of plumbing involved to get these functionalities going which is makes even basic setup a lot more complicated depending on the kind of platform you are deploying to.
ivan_gammel
I don’t get it. Client generates UUID for prompt, PUTs the prompt with this UUID on server. Server caches the generated output for reasonable time, so that subsequent PUTs get 200 instead of 201. Transport protocol failures then do not matter. If response isn’t 4x, just retry.
show comments
mirekrusin
Response API does support resuming.
But it's not gigantic improvement as models don't regenerate "lost"/past parts of conversation, they're heavily cached and were from pretty much day 1, that's why they have highly reduced cost.
binarymax
Websockets are great for this. Initialize the completion with an id, and store the token stream while emitting as a websocket event. Keep the id in state somewhere on the client (url works great with pushstate). If the client disconnects then just replay the event stream for the id.
aeciorc
Weird post. Do dropped connections happen often enough that your users are inconvenienced about it? If not, why overcomplicate? SSE + polling for cached output as plan b is just fine for most people.
anonymoushn
so sad to hear that about Streaming SIMD Extensions
tedivm
SSE just sucks for most use cases, we don't have to go through each one pointing it out.
normie3000
What is SSE?
show comments
riskable
Pub/sub via WebSockets seems like the simplest solution. You'll need to change your LLM serving architecture around a little bit to use a pub/sub system that a microservice can grab the output from (to send to the client) but it's not rocket science.
It's yet another system that needs some DRAM though. The good news is that you can auto-expire the queued up responses pretty fast :shrug:
No idea if it's worth it, though. Someone with access to the statistics surrounding dropped connections/repeated prompts at a big LLM service provider would need to do some math.
show comments
bjt
Weird take. The id field in the SSE spec is there specifically so you can resume a stream. And that requires persistence/caching on the server side. Once you have those things, you're practically at the pubsub option that the article prefers.
show comments
michaelsbradley
The concept of database cursor, or more generally continuation token, has been around a long time. Jumping to pub/sub is missing the mark.
You can have RPC prompt(input) return an opaque cursor, and promptNext(cursor) which returns partial output and the next cursor. As appropriate, the client could specify the desired size of output chunks along with input. The server could advertise or have documented the grace period for exhausting the cursors, but that’s not strictly necessary as it could be indicated in a promptNext(cursor) call that failed because of timeout. Transport session reuse can be handled automatically by HTTP.
When client receives output from a promptNext call it can work on updating the UI while promptNext is dispatched again in the background.
inesranzo
> A better approach: Pub/Sub
Citation Needed.
More importantly, benchmarks needed.
Cannot claim something X is better approach than Y without benchmarks, it is an idea but needs to be proven to be better.
Until then, this post is nothing more than yet another opinion.
samwillis
This is one of the main use cases we are building "Durable Streams" for, it's an open source spec for a resumable and durable stream protocol. It's essentially an append only log with a http api.
When we built ElectricSQL we needed a resumable and durable stream of messages for sync and developed a highly robust and scalable protocol for it. We have now taken that experience and are extracting the underlying transport as an open protocol. This is something the industry needs, and it's essential that it's a standard that portable between provider, libraries and SDKs.
The idea is that a stream is a url addressable entity that can be read and tailed, using very simple http protocol (long polling and a SSE-like mode). But it's fully resumable from a known offset.
We've been using the previous iteration of this as the transport part of the electric sync protocol for the last 18 months. It's very well tested, both on servers, in the browser, but importantly in combination with CDNs. It's possible to scale this to essential unlimited connections (we've tested to 1 million) by request collapsing in the CDN, and as it's so cacheable it lifts a lot of load of your origin when a client reconnect from the start.
For the LLM use case you will be able to append messages/tokens directly to a stream via a http post (we're working on specifying a websocket write path) and the client just tails it. If the user refreshes the page it will just read back from the start and continue tailing the live session. Avoids appending tokens to a database in order to provide durability.
> the model has to re-run the generation, and the client has to start receiving tokens from scratch again.
I don't understand. The payload can be designed to have sequence number. In case of reconnect, send the last known sequence number. Sounds like a application level protocol problem and not transport. Am I missing something?
The pub/sub mentioned in the article essentially does the same thing.
Not x86_64's Streaming SIMD Extensions, but Server-sent events [1]. SSE and AVX are probably not that bad at /handling/ LLM tokens...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server-sent_events
Author tries to avoid a database for storing tokens while the client is disconnected and ends up storing them in a pub/sub provider.
There's no solution other than to store the tokens somewhere, or drop them. You have to make a choice how long you want to allow reconnects for. And this is all pretty independent of the transport layer, as the author even mentioned themselves, you can resume even a new session as long as you have a prompt ID or something to tie it back to the original request.
I don't know enough about how the LLM providers stream results, but the original claim that inference is more expensive than transport is a good point, and caching tokens seems like a smart move. Unfortunately, we pay by the token, so I don't see the incentive for providers to spend time and money doing this for us.
Resumable “at least once” pub sub would be exactly the same architectural semantics as a more complete SSE implementation.
A server would keep a buffer of events and a cursor keyed by some kind of event id. Resuming clients would reattach on a new dissociated connection and ask to resume from a particular id.
This is what the id field in events and the last-event-id are for in the SSE specification.
A pub sub system would also not solve the described unidirectional problem.
As inference is so expensive it seems natural to add a sensible stream buffer solution in some middleware and that’s trivial to write. Hell it’s the kind of thing a one paragraph prompt would almost certainly one-shot.
The post seems to be more of a reaction to some specific situation than a meaningful commentary on the protocol or associated architectures.
Seems like there's a few abstractions mixed up, the problems have nothing to do with SSE.
You can store the state in the SSE connection and have the problems described, and if you don't like those, you can move thr state to something distributed/persisted.
Pubsub is just a layer on top of SSE or websockets, cause guess how it'd end up sending things to the browser
We ended up using JSONL for our implementation but it is also possible to switch using other "streamable" variants like SSE and even CSV if that is what you are into.
But, as the OP suggested, none of these are resumable. So we have created a pub/sub over HTTP that does exactly this.
The way it works is that you get a unique URL that is specific to the current authenticated session. You can request data as many time as you like from that URL and it will get streamed to your client from the last checkpoint.
It works well even with rudimentary tools like curl. There is practically no protocol of sorts required - the kind of implementation I really like because who wants more complications in their life, right?
The big issue build conversational and even agentic AI with off-the-shelf frameworks rather than using a platform such as ours is that there is a lot of plumbing involved to get these functionalities going which is makes even basic setup a lot more complicated depending on the kind of platform you are deploying to.
I don’t get it. Client generates UUID for prompt, PUTs the prompt with this UUID on server. Server caches the generated output for reasonable time, so that subsequent PUTs get 200 instead of 201. Transport protocol failures then do not matter. If response isn’t 4x, just retry.
Response API does support resuming.
But it's not gigantic improvement as models don't regenerate "lost"/past parts of conversation, they're heavily cached and were from pretty much day 1, that's why they have highly reduced cost.
Websockets are great for this. Initialize the completion with an id, and store the token stream while emitting as a websocket event. Keep the id in state somewhere on the client (url works great with pushstate). If the client disconnects then just replay the event stream for the id.
Weird post. Do dropped connections happen often enough that your users are inconvenienced about it? If not, why overcomplicate? SSE + polling for cached output as plan b is just fine for most people.
so sad to hear that about Streaming SIMD Extensions
SSE just sucks for most use cases, we don't have to go through each one pointing it out.
What is SSE?
Pub/sub via WebSockets seems like the simplest solution. You'll need to change your LLM serving architecture around a little bit to use a pub/sub system that a microservice can grab the output from (to send to the client) but it's not rocket science.
It's yet another system that needs some DRAM though. The good news is that you can auto-expire the queued up responses pretty fast :shrug:
No idea if it's worth it, though. Someone with access to the statistics surrounding dropped connections/repeated prompts at a big LLM service provider would need to do some math.
Weird take. The id field in the SSE spec is there specifically so you can resume a stream. And that requires persistence/caching on the server side. Once you have those things, you're practically at the pubsub option that the article prefers.
The concept of database cursor, or more generally continuation token, has been around a long time. Jumping to pub/sub is missing the mark.
You can have RPC prompt(input) return an opaque cursor, and promptNext(cursor) which returns partial output and the next cursor. As appropriate, the client could specify the desired size of output chunks along with input. The server could advertise or have documented the grace period for exhausting the cursors, but that’s not strictly necessary as it could be indicated in a promptNext(cursor) call that failed because of timeout. Transport session reuse can be handled automatically by HTTP.
When client receives output from a promptNext call it can work on updating the UI while promptNext is dispatched again in the background.
> A better approach: Pub/Sub
Citation Needed.
More importantly, benchmarks needed.
Cannot claim something X is better approach than Y without benchmarks, it is an idea but needs to be proven to be better.
Until then, this post is nothing more than yet another opinion.
This is one of the main use cases we are building "Durable Streams" for, it's an open source spec for a resumable and durable stream protocol. It's essentially an append only log with a http api.
https://github.com/durable-streams/durable-streams
https://electric-sql.com/blog/2025/12/09/announcing-durable-...
When we built ElectricSQL we needed a resumable and durable stream of messages for sync and developed a highly robust and scalable protocol for it. We have now taken that experience and are extracting the underlying transport as an open protocol. This is something the industry needs, and it's essential that it's a standard that portable between provider, libraries and SDKs.
The idea is that a stream is a url addressable entity that can be read and tailed, using very simple http protocol (long polling and a SSE-like mode). But it's fully resumable from a known offset.
We've been using the previous iteration of this as the transport part of the electric sync protocol for the last 18 months. It's very well tested, both on servers, in the browser, but importantly in combination with CDNs. It's possible to scale this to essential unlimited connections (we've tested to 1 million) by request collapsing in the CDN, and as it's so cacheable it lifts a lot of load of your origin when a client reconnect from the start.
For the LLM use case you will be able to append messages/tokens directly to a stream via a http post (we're working on specifying a websocket write path) and the client just tails it. If the user refreshes the page it will just read back from the start and continue tailing the live session. Avoids appending tokens to a database in order to provide durability.