I get some push back from a few tech friends because I avoid using apps (except for things like Chess game apps). I can’t say for sure that preferring web versions of services helps with censorship, but it can’t hurt.
Using web versions, not apps, is important because companies keep user device statistics and if enough people insist in using web versions, the the web will continue to be at least partially supported by big tech.
show comments
hereme888
The article is clearly an advocacy/op-ed that uses "loaded-framing" ("totalitarian control", “cop-in-your-pocket”) and a lot of speculation. A one-sided point of view, as is common in modern "journalism".
That said, code should never be banned in the U.S. But U.S. companies need to operate within U.S. laws.
AlgebraFox
While censorship is one thing, they forgot another overlooked ability of these app stores: pushing unwanted apps/services to our personal devices without our knowledge.The fact that the majority of people don’t care about this censorship and backdoors makes me think we don’t really appreciate the concept of freedom, and maybe we are okay with being slaves—at least until we cannot take it anymore. Maybe that’s why history repeats itself every few decades to remind us about these values.
show comments
isodev
I’m very happy to see a US organisations picking this up finally. Apple/Google clearly want to fight this on a country by country basis so they can stretch it until forever. Hope the pressure results in meaningful changes for all.
show comments
2OEH8eoCRo0
I wish I had more control over what the app stores show me. I should be able to block or hide apps on the storefront. Stop showing me TikTok Temu or Shein.
pbiggar
Another way these app stores enable censorship is by having arcane and inscrutable review processes, where they often ban your app for no reason with no recourse (unless you know a Googler or Apple employee, who can investigate).
For example, we work with Aween Rayeh [1], an app that provides real-time traffic information about Israeli checkpoints in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. The author's account was banned for no reason at all on Google Play [2]. There was no means to get an appeal or a review.
What typically we see happening is that someone internally at these companies issues a ban for what we assume are ideological reasons. Then when someone looks into it there's no actual reason for the ban to have happened, and it sails through. We see similar thing with shadow banning on social media: someone gets hard flagged and their account is completely shut down, and then when someone looks into it, there was never a reason to do it in the first place.
The title is correct. The landscape became dangerous because governments withdraw from regulating the space unleashing big corporates on citizen's privacy and options.
It is a Corporate-Government dystopia.
1970-01-01
Yes. Apps are now just another layer of privacy invasion. 95% of apps could just be a website with zero reduction in function. Literally a bookmark on your home screen to the thing.
superkuh
It is not your smartphone. The user computer is yours but the phone is owned by the telcom. You do not have a license to operate it. The telco does. They are the owners of your smart phone. Smart phones are terrible computing devices. They are excellent shopping/bank terminals and navigational aids, but they are not allowed to compute. Set it to host a hotspot and use a real computer if you want control. A smartphone will never, can never, allow you to own it. It would be illegal.
Google probably knew about this rule change long in advance and it's what motivated them.
lenerdenator
This is why a real, committed FLOSS OS is needed for smartphones. Something like how Debian works. You have a non-commercial entity steering the project, it has a governance model, and the goal is to create something that ultimately, no one owns or can take full control over.
show comments
viktorcode
How about app creators sue DOJ and/or Apple if the law is on their side?
show comments
chaostheory
Well, there is the issue of security. While the app stores are also far from perfect on that issue, it’s still better than the Wild West given the sheer number of apps they have to do deal with. Then there’s also the issue of hosting and deploying the client app. Convenience has a cost
show comments
analog8374
When is censorship ok?
We have moderators, here in hn. We also have them in reddit.
So sometimes we like censorship and sometimes we don't.
show comments
mosura
Most people on here should consider the opposite extreme: a free for all where millions of idiots are carrying devices where they can install and run anything on a device where arbitrary radio signals can be transmitted and received at will under software control. Once you accept that would be ridiculous then the question becomes where to draw the line.
I get some push back from a few tech friends because I avoid using apps (except for things like Chess game apps). I can’t say for sure that preferring web versions of services helps with censorship, but it can’t hurt.
Using web versions, not apps, is important because companies keep user device statistics and if enough people insist in using web versions, the the web will continue to be at least partially supported by big tech.
The article is clearly an advocacy/op-ed that uses "loaded-framing" ("totalitarian control", “cop-in-your-pocket”) and a lot of speculation. A one-sided point of view, as is common in modern "journalism".
That said, code should never be banned in the U.S. But U.S. companies need to operate within U.S. laws.
While censorship is one thing, they forgot another overlooked ability of these app stores: pushing unwanted apps/services to our personal devices without our knowledge.The fact that the majority of people don’t care about this censorship and backdoors makes me think we don’t really appreciate the concept of freedom, and maybe we are okay with being slaves—at least until we cannot take it anymore. Maybe that’s why history repeats itself every few decades to remind us about these values.
I’m very happy to see a US organisations picking this up finally. Apple/Google clearly want to fight this on a country by country basis so they can stretch it until forever. Hope the pressure results in meaningful changes for all.
I wish I had more control over what the app stores show me. I should be able to block or hide apps on the storefront. Stop showing me TikTok Temu or Shein.
Another way these app stores enable censorship is by having arcane and inscrutable review processes, where they often ban your app for no reason with no recourse (unless you know a Googler or Apple employee, who can investigate).
For example, we work with Aween Rayeh [1], an app that provides real-time traffic information about Israeli checkpoints in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. The author's account was banned for no reason at all on Google Play [2]. There was no means to get an appeal or a review.
What typically we see happening is that someone internally at these companies issues a ban for what we assume are ideological reasons. Then when someone looks into it there's no actual reason for the ban to have happened, and it sails through. We see similar thing with shadow banning on social media: someone gets hard flagged and their account is completely shut down, and then when someone looks into it, there was never a reason to do it in the first place.
[1] https://www.aweenrayeh.com/ [2] https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/thre...
The title is correct. The landscape became dangerous because governments withdraw from regulating the space unleashing big corporates on citizen's privacy and options.
It is a Corporate-Government dystopia.
Yes. Apps are now just another layer of privacy invasion. 95% of apps could just be a website with zero reduction in function. Literally a bookmark on your home screen to the thing.
It is not your smartphone. The user computer is yours but the phone is owned by the telcom. You do not have a license to operate it. The telco does. They are the owners of your smart phone. Smart phones are terrible computing devices. They are excellent shopping/bank terminals and navigational aids, but they are not allowed to compute. Set it to host a hotspot and use a real computer if you want control. A smartphone will never, can never, allow you to own it. It would be illegal.
LaLiga matches may not be shown on any device that allows alternative app stores or side loading: https://torrentfreak.com/laliga-says-isps-joining-its-piracy...
Google probably knew about this rule change long in advance and it's what motivated them.
This is why a real, committed FLOSS OS is needed for smartphones. Something like how Debian works. You have a non-commercial entity steering the project, it has a governance model, and the goal is to create something that ultimately, no one owns or can take full control over.
How about app creators sue DOJ and/or Apple if the law is on their side?
Well, there is the issue of security. While the app stores are also far from perfect on that issue, it’s still better than the Wild West given the sheer number of apps they have to do deal with. Then there’s also the issue of hosting and deploying the client app. Convenience has a cost
When is censorship ok?
We have moderators, here in hn. We also have them in reddit.
So sometimes we like censorship and sometimes we don't.
Most people on here should consider the opposite extreme: a free for all where millions of idiots are carrying devices where they can install and run anything on a device where arbitrary radio signals can be transmitted and received at will under software control. Once you accept that would be ridiculous then the question becomes where to draw the line.