Someone posted that URL as a separate submission shortly after this was submitted, but rather than splitting the discussion, we've merged the comments here so it can all be discussed as one topic.
balloob
Founder Home Assistant here. Want to chime in that I always love to see write ups like these to see the great things what people achieve with Home Assistant.
Not everyone might know, but last year we started the Open Home Foundation as a non-profit in Switzerland and I donated Home Assistant to it[1]. It's fully funded by users. There are no investors involved.
We are fully committed to building out a smart home that focuses on local control and privacy. Yes there are rough edges, but we're actively working on it in the open, with progress being released every month.
The real magic is in my opinion in ESPHome. The fact that you can amateur solder some aliexpress $2 sensors together and have that actually work in HA with no coding except some yaml that you found on the internet is wild.
>It would be interesting to see what would happen to a pull request adding support for, say, OpenThings Cloud as an alternative. The fate of that request would say a lot about how open the project really is.
I kinda hope nobody tries. Their attempts at monetization have been pretty friendly and tame thus far & if something spooks them that could change.
show comments
ldng
Well clearly he did not look under the hood ... I did. A few technical decisions are ... questionable. But it's prohibited to ask why in the forum.
HA could do well in cleaning up its community that can be particularly toxic, especially toward advanced user and start accepting critics.
The hostility one face when they don't want to follow the "dumb down version, do as we say" installation process is really off-putting.
show comments
apexalpha
I have HA running for years (in Docker) and it’s very reliable.
It has integrations with allmost all devices or apps I use and the support for DSMR (Smart Electrical Meters) is first class
I plugged a cable into my meter, the usb end into the server and it just works.
It does have a steep learning curve, though. It really seems “by IT people for IT people”
show comments
greatgib
Something that annoys me a lot with recent versions of HA is that it does not play well anymore with yaml file configs.
Your are mostly forced to configure things through the interface, that is ok but might be annoying and painful to do when you have a few devices with a little bit more complicated setup.
For example, I wanted to replace a light bulb by another one that has a different Mac address to replace another one exactly. Before it was as simple as changing the Mac in the config file. No it is more complicated.
Also it was very easy to review and backup the config files. Now it is less obvious.
dengolius
My friend uses self-hosted open-source software to monitor all his home IoT devices[1] and copies important information to the cloud. I'm using StarFive VisionFive 2 to host my database for monitoring, but also have a copy of the data of a chip hetzner arm vps, as well as hosting backups on the two different clouds. I know users who are running[2] for years to monitor Solar panels, lawn watering and vegetable garden watering.
My question is: is it really convenient to use only SaaS now if there is always the possibility of losing your data? I am referring to the case described in the article.
At some point a company is going to start making hackable, local connection devices (cloud optional) with published APIs and sell them at a higher price tag, and they’re going to be fabulously wealthy, commanding higher margins than the others.
At least, that’s what I like to tell myself.
show comments
KillenBoek
Just wondering why anyone would go through the hassle of installing home assistant on Linux when the fantastic hassOS exists which will run perfectly virtualized.
show comments
rurban
I tried to install it on a raspi 4 with touchscreen for my wife. The raspi worked fine with Debian, esp. it's installer asks for the wifi and ssh keys, and therefore you can trivially connect to it.
Not so with the homeassistant installer. No wifi setup, no ssh access at all. You really need to cable it, nmap the new IP, and then I got stuck because the web server doesn't show up. Attaching the keyboard brought me into a restricted ha> prompt, where I cannot fix anything.
So far it's horrible
show comments
bluGill
I got frusterated with HA's attempts to make is hard to run outside of their distro and installed openHAB. I find that works good enough for me.
show comments
readthenotes1
The data ownership reminds me a bit of an early business ummm transaction if Dr Phil:
1. Sell the gullible public long-term memberships to a gym, with long-term subscriptions.
For a long time I was running home automation using individual scripts and was happy with it. Then I found myself in a remote place where the ISP gave a shitty modem which hangs when there's no heavy usage ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I had to automate restarting the modem when the Internet is down by power cycling a smart plug[1], Home Assistant turned out to be extremely useful for that. Official HW integrations and Node-RED was very straightforward to solve my problem. Since then I'm managing and monitoring various hardware devices in my home through HA.
What's interesting is that there are manufacturers who are not only fine with HA but work with developers of HA integrations which enable offline usage of their IoT products even though their official apps are completely enshittified.
Nowadays I checkout HA compatibility before I buy a IoT device.
I tried HA back in the day and got YAML-bound trying to get various sensors and controllers to integrate and work reliably. I revisited HA a couple of times over the years, but by then had become cosy with Node-RED and saw no strong reason to change. I understand HA's now more configurable through the front-end GUI, which is nice.
I've just integrated an office UPS with the Node-RED stock dashboard to log status, mains voltage and battery charge state - it took all of 5 mins, including the time to install the UPS NUT plugin for Node-RED via the GUI.
I love the ease of the visual, block-based configuration, and the ability to add codable function blocks to process and modify data.
The only things that are not so great in Node-RED are the dashboard look and feel, and the dashboard setup tools.
billfor
> Home Assistant has support for that remote option, and no others.
The openHAB Cloud Connector allows connecting the local openHAB runtime to a remote openHAB Cloud instance, such as myopenHAB.org, which is an instance of the openHAB Cloud service hosted by the openHAB Foundation (https://www.openhab.org/addons/integrations/openhabcloud/)
> There is also a container-based method that can run on another distribution, but this installation does not support the add-ons feature.
You can use the add-ons with the containerized version. This has been discussed elsewhere.
MacNCheese23
I don't really get HA. It seems oversized for what most people need for their own home automation. Maybe I'm just jaded because my house is fully KNX wired, but the only "addon" I need is NodeRed for some Dashboard and Integrations of ESPs that are just for additional monitoring. It runs in a lonely docker container just fine and does not need a million dependencies.
Then again, I also don't understand why people buy every "smart"/cloud based device and try to glue everything together - when the hardware fails most likely the vendor does not exist or no longer supports it anymore and then you start all over again.
show comments
homedespot
I started using home assistant when it first came out, found it too clumsy, returned years later, and found it too bloated.
A lot of volunteer work has gone into it but it lacks overall coordination of efforts and a usage model that is simple and consistent. That’s one of the downsides of open source: too many cooks and you get mediocrity, but accidentally when everyone is good hearted about it.
I had to do so much research on appliances I was adding that it was easier to just roll my own gateway and cloud. Now it is a vastly smaller code base that I control and can easily debug issues.
Maybe HA could refactor into a smaller set of modules that doesn’t require a huge set of assets from the get go?
protocolture
Home Assistant is great, I have been able to push it to do things I wasnt expecting it to permit. Just running Python within a container arbitrarily interacting with the network and sensors. I used it to backend my own home web application.
I believe a lot of people who are upset with the product have radically incorrect expectations.
[deleted]
mkoubaa
Looking forward to the day we might have home appliances without on board cpus, they will just be LAN wifi firmware devices. Something like HA could be used to make them as smart or as dumb as the user wants without giving the manufacturer any control over the UX
show comments
brbcompiling
Feels like building my own smart Jarvis at home — kinda tricky, but super fun!
show comments
MostlyStable
Is there anywhere that compiles a database of local control capable smart home devices? I tried briefly to search and I found databases of smart devices but none seemed to have that as a filter.
show comments
pmlnr
Home Assistant is a toy when it comes to automation reliability. It's a good toy though.
I'll stick to my domoticz for the "if it ain't broken..." approach.
show comments
jillyboel3
> Home Assistant has support for that remote option, and no others.
It's literally just a reverse proxy. Set up any you like. Wireguard, cloudflare tunnel, caddy with a security plugin, the options are limitless.
NewJazz
Is there a way to contribute to LWN without creating an account or having an ongoing thing? Does nobody use crypto?
Please note this is a two-part series. The second part can be read here:
https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1017945/93d12d28178b372e/
Someone posted that URL as a separate submission shortly after this was submitted, but rather than splitting the discussion, we've merged the comments here so it can all be discussed as one topic.
Founder Home Assistant here. Want to chime in that I always love to see write ups like these to see the great things what people achieve with Home Assistant.
Not everyone might know, but last year we started the Open Home Foundation as a non-profit in Switzerland and I donated Home Assistant to it[1]. It's fully funded by users. There are no investors involved.
We are fully committed to building out a smart home that focuses on local control and privacy. Yes there are rough edges, but we're actively working on it in the open, with progress being released every month.
~Paulus, Founder Home Assistant & President Open Home Foundation https://github.com/balloob
[1]: https://www.openhomefoundation.org/blog/announcing-the-open-...
The real magic is in my opinion in ESPHome. The fact that you can amateur solder some aliexpress $2 sensors together and have that actually work in HA with no coding except some yaml that you found on the internet is wild.
>It would be interesting to see what would happen to a pull request adding support for, say, OpenThings Cloud as an alternative. The fate of that request would say a lot about how open the project really is.
I kinda hope nobody tries. Their attempts at monetization have been pretty friendly and tame thus far & if something spooks them that could change.
Well clearly he did not look under the hood ... I did. A few technical decisions are ... questionable. But it's prohibited to ask why in the forum. HA could do well in cleaning up its community that can be particularly toxic, especially toward advanced user and start accepting critics. The hostility one face when they don't want to follow the "dumb down version, do as we say" installation process is really off-putting.
I have HA running for years (in Docker) and it’s very reliable.
It has integrations with allmost all devices or apps I use and the support for DSMR (Smart Electrical Meters) is first class
I plugged a cable into my meter, the usb end into the server and it just works.
It does have a steep learning curve, though. It really seems “by IT people for IT people”
Something that annoys me a lot with recent versions of HA is that it does not play well anymore with yaml file configs. Your are mostly forced to configure things through the interface, that is ok but might be annoying and painful to do when you have a few devices with a little bit more complicated setup.
For example, I wanted to replace a light bulb by another one that has a different Mac address to replace another one exactly. Before it was as simple as changing the Mac in the config file. No it is more complicated.
Also it was very easy to review and backup the config files. Now it is less obvious.
My friend uses self-hosted open-source software to monitor all his home IoT devices[1] and copies important information to the cloud. I'm using StarFive VisionFive 2 to host my database for monitoring, but also have a copy of the data of a chip hetzner arm vps, as well as hosting backups on the two different clouds. I know users who are running[2] for years to monitor Solar panels, lawn watering and vegetable garden watering.
My question is: is it really convenient to use only SaaS now if there is always the possibility of losing your data? I am referring to the case described in the article.
[1]: https://vrutkovs.eu/posts/home-infra/ [2]: https://github.com/VictoriaMetrics-Community/homeassistant-a...
PS: I'm working at VictoriaMetrics company
At some point a company is going to start making hackable, local connection devices (cloud optional) with published APIs and sell them at a higher price tag, and they’re going to be fabulously wealthy, commanding higher margins than the others.
At least, that’s what I like to tell myself.
Just wondering why anyone would go through the hassle of installing home assistant on Linux when the fantastic hassOS exists which will run perfectly virtualized.
I tried to install it on a raspi 4 with touchscreen for my wife. The raspi worked fine with Debian, esp. it's installer asks for the wifi and ssh keys, and therefore you can trivially connect to it.
Not so with the homeassistant installer. No wifi setup, no ssh access at all. You really need to cable it, nmap the new IP, and then I got stuck because the web server doesn't show up. Attaching the keyboard brought me into a restricted ha> prompt, where I cannot fix anything.
So far it's horrible
I got frusterated with HA's attempts to make is hard to run outside of their distro and installed openHAB. I find that works good enough for me.
The data ownership reminds me a bit of an early business ummm transaction if Dr Phil:
1. Sell the gullible public long-term memberships to a gym, with long-term subscriptions.
2. Sell the subscriptions to a 3rd party.
3. Close gym. Subscription contract still valid.
https://www.celebitchy.com/8971/dr_phil_ran_a_health_club_sc...
For a long time I was running home automation using individual scripts and was happy with it. Then I found myself in a remote place where the ISP gave a shitty modem which hangs when there's no heavy usage ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I had to automate restarting the modem when the Internet is down by power cycling a smart plug[1], Home Assistant turned out to be extremely useful for that. Official HW integrations and Node-RED was very straightforward to solve my problem. Since then I'm managing and monitoring various hardware devices in my home through HA.
What's interesting is that there are manufacturers who are not only fine with HA but work with developers of HA integrations which enable offline usage of their IoT products even though their official apps are completely enshittified.
Nowadays I checkout HA compatibility before I buy a IoT device.
[1] https://abishekmuthian.com/restart-modem-automatically-when-...
Thanks! Check out Lars' channel for some interesting insights into Home Assistant with remote sensors: https://www.youtube.com/@LarsKlintTech/search?query=home%20a...
I tried HA back in the day and got YAML-bound trying to get various sensors and controllers to integrate and work reliably. I revisited HA a couple of times over the years, but by then had become cosy with Node-RED and saw no strong reason to change. I understand HA's now more configurable through the front-end GUI, which is nice.
I've just integrated an office UPS with the Node-RED stock dashboard to log status, mains voltage and battery charge state - it took all of 5 mins, including the time to install the UPS NUT plugin for Node-RED via the GUI.
I love the ease of the visual, block-based configuration, and the ability to add codable function blocks to process and modify data.
The only things that are not so great in Node-RED are the dashboard look and feel, and the dashboard setup tools.
> Home Assistant has support for that remote option, and no others.
The openHAB Cloud Connector allows connecting the local openHAB runtime to a remote openHAB Cloud instance, such as myopenHAB.org, which is an instance of the openHAB Cloud service hosted by the openHAB Foundation (https://www.openhab.org/addons/integrations/openhabcloud/)
> There is also a container-based method that can run on another distribution, but this installation does not support the add-ons feature.
You can use the add-ons with the containerized version. This has been discussed elsewhere.
I don't really get HA. It seems oversized for what most people need for their own home automation. Maybe I'm just jaded because my house is fully KNX wired, but the only "addon" I need is NodeRed for some Dashboard and Integrations of ESPs that are just for additional monitoring. It runs in a lonely docker container just fine and does not need a million dependencies.
Then again, I also don't understand why people buy every "smart"/cloud based device and try to glue everything together - when the hardware fails most likely the vendor does not exist or no longer supports it anymore and then you start all over again.
I started using home assistant when it first came out, found it too clumsy, returned years later, and found it too bloated.
A lot of volunteer work has gone into it but it lacks overall coordination of efforts and a usage model that is simple and consistent. That’s one of the downsides of open source: too many cooks and you get mediocrity, but accidentally when everyone is good hearted about it.
I had to do so much research on appliances I was adding that it was easier to just roll my own gateway and cloud. Now it is a vastly smaller code base that I control and can easily debug issues.
Maybe HA could refactor into a smaller set of modules that doesn’t require a huge set of assets from the get go?
Home Assistant is great, I have been able to push it to do things I wasnt expecting it to permit. Just running Python within a container arbitrarily interacting with the network and sensors. I used it to backend my own home web application.
I believe a lot of people who are upset with the product have radically incorrect expectations.
Looking forward to the day we might have home appliances without on board cpus, they will just be LAN wifi firmware devices. Something like HA could be used to make them as smart or as dumb as the user wants without giving the manufacturer any control over the UX
Feels like building my own smart Jarvis at home — kinda tricky, but super fun!
Is there anywhere that compiles a database of local control capable smart home devices? I tried briefly to search and I found databases of smart devices but none seemed to have that as a filter.
Home Assistant is a toy when it comes to automation reliability. It's a good toy though.
I'll stick to my domoticz for the "if it ain't broken..." approach.
> Home Assistant has support for that remote option, and no others.
It's literally just a reverse proxy. Set up any you like. Wireguard, cloudflare tunnel, caddy with a security plugin, the options are limitless.
Is there a way to contribute to LWN without creating an account or having an ongoing thing? Does nobody use crypto?
A link for the first article in this series:
https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1017720/7155ecb9602e9ef2/
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